Historical Figures

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hello and thank you for choosing Men of a Certain Five. We're gonna break down top five everything from the world of pop culture and just the world in general. I'm Phil Rizzo. I'm gonna be joined by Brian Parks on this podcast. But a quick disclaimer. This podcast was originally called the High Five Podcast. We decided after recording a few episodes to change the name for a multitude of reasons. But yeah, now it's called Men of a Certain Five. So if you do hear us refer to it as the High Five podcast, please ignore that for the first few episodes. We think we have some good content. We didn't want to go back and re record the those episodes where we mentioned the High Five. So we're going to stick with it and we appreciate your patience. Listen, thank you so much for listening and yeah, we look forward to putting some pods out there for you. [00:00:53] Speaker B: All right. Yes, here we are. Welcome to another episode of the High Five. Here we are. We got a fun little interesting topic for you today. Thanks for, thanks for checking us out, hanging out with us and dealing with our nonsense here. I'm Brian Parks and let me say hello to my co host here, Phil Rizzo. Phil, what do you got going on, Palmer? [00:01:12] Speaker A: What's happening, man? Doing well. How about yourself? [00:01:14] Speaker B: You know what, Life is going on. You know, that's, that's about what I. [00:01:17] Speaker A: Could say, you know, life is happening. Yeah. [00:01:19] Speaker B: At, at the present recording of this, I'm about a month away from getting hitched. So, you know, you know, things. [00:01:24] Speaker A: Very exciting stuff, getting married. Yeah, that's pretty exciting. [00:01:29] Speaker B: Yeah. I'll have the top five mess ups from my wedding coming up pretty soon. [00:01:36] Speaker A: Top 10's reason she made a mistake the day after, you know. [00:01:41] Speaker B: We will see. [00:01:43] Speaker A: That's exciting. I'm looking, I'm looking forward to the bachelor party first and then. [00:01:46] Speaker B: That's right. [00:01:47] Speaker A: And then the wedding. [00:01:48] Speaker B: There will be, we know there's going to be gambling and drinking involved. I don't know what else. We'll see what happens. [00:01:52] Speaker A: You know, we'll see what happens. So you said you're drinking a little wine there. What kind of wine you drinking? [00:01:57] Speaker B: So this is a Spanish. I like Spanish red wine some, you know, I, I've won Allison over to this now. You know, she, she's, she, I think she still loves Italian wine better, but, but she's come around to the Spanish wine. So I, I actually the bottles out there, Allison took some and she's hanging out away from me watching something. But I, I don't know or probably reading something, but I don't know what. What the exact brand is, so I apologize for that. [00:02:22] Speaker A: It's a red. A. [00:02:24] Speaker B: It's a red. [00:02:24] Speaker A: It's a red. It's good enough for me. I wouldn't know the difference anyway. [00:02:27] Speaker B: And what about you? You're. You're having a little Bruski over there? [00:02:31] Speaker A: Yeah, Trying a new beer. Trying a new beer tonight. So. It's called a Czech Var. It's a. It's a Czechoslovakian lager. It's pretty damn good. [00:02:38] Speaker B: Yeah, that's sounds pretty good, you know. [00:02:41] Speaker A: Yeah. I love when people, you know, you have a party at your place and people leave a bunch of different beers so you can just, you know, sample whatever you want afterwards. [00:02:47] Speaker B: That is cool. Yeah. [00:02:48] Speaker A: Yeah. Czech bar. [00:02:50] Speaker B: Your own little brewery. That's because you had a big, little poker tournament over there, right? Yeah. [00:02:54] Speaker A: Yeah, Big poker game. Big poker game yesterday. Did really well. I'm sorry. [00:03:00] Speaker B: That's what we should be keeping on the DL. I don't know if we should be. You know, is it okay we announced that? I mean, I don't know. [00:03:05] Speaker A: Oh, poker. [00:03:06] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm just, I'm just, you know. [00:03:08] Speaker A: Because of, like, illegal gamblingers. [00:03:10] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're like. The pot ain't that big, bro. [00:03:13] Speaker A: Well, the house didn't take any, so I think it's legal. [00:03:15] Speaker B: Oh, yes, yes, yes. [00:03:17] Speaker A: That's. Yeah. No. So, all right, we got some drinks. [00:03:19] Speaker B: We're ready to. We're ready to rock. [00:03:20] Speaker A: We're gonna. Gonna dive into this top five now. [00:03:23] Speaker B: Are you. Are you pumped up? Yeah. So we got a little something different for you here today. We're going to go top five out. You know what we consider to be our top as of right now? Our top five historical figures. [00:03:33] Speaker A: Historical figures. That's right. It's such a different, different topic for us than usual. [00:03:38] Speaker B: Pretty broad. I don't know where. You know. Now, we didn't set any boundaries to this whole thing, so we just. Right. As far as we know, it's. Yeah. [00:03:45] Speaker A: No, we didn't talk about who we were going to pick ahead of time. We just came up with the topic and we both picked our five. [00:03:50] Speaker B: Now, I, I gotta admit that I, I kind of. Paris gets not included. I, I don't know if this is gonna be on your list, but I have to say, right off the top, I was like, I didn't want to get. Go down the religious road, so I, I. Although I would probably put Jesus. I have to put him on a list. I probably would Not. I didn't. I didn't include him here. I don't know. How about you? Is that something. I. Am. I. [00:04:09] Speaker A: You know, hey, I was. I had no idea how you were gonna pick your list. I didn't know how I was gonna pick mine until I started doing it. Until I came up with, like, a list of, like, 20 names and. And I started whittling it down. But my. My picks were, like, you know, sort of personal favorites right now. Like what? [00:04:26] Speaker B: Like that. [00:04:27] Speaker A: The. The. The part of history I'm kind of into right now is like, you know, anywhere from, you know, antiquity to, like, Middle Ages, you know, anything sooner than that. I'm just not interested in right now. Like, you know. Yeah, you know, you got your. You got your Napoleons and your Abraham Lincolns and your Even, you know, whatever you want to do. You know, John F. Kennedy's. You know, I'm not. Wasn't into that. I'm pretty sure the most. The most modern pick on this list for me is. Wow. Is in, like, the 8th and 9th century is like. That's the most modern I have. [00:04:59] Speaker B: Damn, girl. I know. [00:05:01] Speaker A: So it's just the way it worked out. [00:05:02] Speaker B: So this is. I gotta be honest with you now. Now I know for a fact that we. We're not gonna have any duplicates on this list. I'll tell you that right now. Because I gotta be honest with you. I could not help myself. I'm such a Homer. I was battling getting away from American history. You know, I couldn't stop myself in American history, so. But. So I threw one on there for five. Just. Just to have somebody out of the. Out of the realm here. So, you know, we'll see what happens here. [00:05:26] Speaker A: Well, that's good. I mean, it's. I like. I like the idea of personal preference. I like the idea of different lists. Like, I'm very curious to hear what you got on your list. You know, in doing these. These lists and the top five, you know, the high five, I feel like, you know, there's no rules. Like, whatever you're feeling like, you know, the way I took it was what, like, right now are my top five favorite historical figures? Or at least not favorite. Like, you know. You know, I had a poster of them on my wall when I was a kid. But, like, right. Like. Like just what I'm kind of like, feeling right now, like what I think is important and, you know, people I think did. Did cool pretty much is. Is what my criteria is. [00:05:59] Speaker B: I will say that my top two would. Was probably the Easiest thing for me. I, it, those two were on my list automatically. And then everything else was a little bit of a, of a, of a poll. But I, I, I'm, I'm, I'm curious to see what you think. [00:06:12] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, you know, it's gonna be interesting. And listen, disclaimer. Like, we are not history majors. We are not, you know, versed in history or anything. This is just kind of like, you know, we're kind of winging it. You know, nobody's, you know. So that, that being said, if I get a couple facts wrong or something. Forgive me, you know, I, I, I took some notes. I usually don't do that. Usually I just like to wing it. But I definitely took some notes. Yeah, I want to speak a little bit to some of these. Some of these. [00:06:39] Speaker B: Yeah. See? See, I wish I did. I wish I had taken some. I, I, I, But I have my phone here if I need to look some, I would love to have some pinpoint. I'm going to be going off memory here, but we're going to, so I know I'm going to get a lot of facts wrong, but we'll see what happens here. [00:06:51] Speaker A: Well, that's all right. I mean, again, we're not, we're not scientific historians. We're not, you know, we're just, we're just, just, just fan, we're fans of historical figures. Hey, yeah, let's say that, you know. No, no, we just, we picked our top five. I'm really curious. This is outside the realm of anything we've done so far on this, so. [00:07:07] Speaker B: It is. Yeah. [00:07:08] Speaker A: You know, it's certainly outside of our wheelhouse in a lot of ways. [00:07:10] Speaker B: 100%. [00:07:11] Speaker A: We're definitely movies, TV, you know, sports dudes, sports, music even, but like hist figures. But hey, we promised you folks we're going to have a diverse, diverse topics on this, on this pod. [00:07:22] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:07:23] Speaker A: So if it's not your thing, you know, I'm sorry. But maybe, maybe you'll, you'll like a little something a little different, you know. [00:07:29] Speaker B: Now because I don't, I'm curious to hear, you know, my five is a little bit of, I'm interesting choice here. So I want to hear you. Let's let you kick this off. We're going to let you roll the dice here with your number five here if you're ready to go. [00:07:43] Speaker A: Sounds good. I am. And I think it's appropriate that I go first because my number five is the father of history itself. My number five is Herodotus. Okay. Herodotus was a Greek historian, some say the first historian, some he's called the father of history sometimes. All right? And now I know. Anyone out there who's listening right now who knows Herodotus at all is like, ah, come on, really? [00:08:10] Speaker B: Now, I gotta be honest with you. I don't know who this. I don't know if you ever heard his name before now. What, whatever are we talking about? What century is BC Stuff? [00:08:18] Speaker A: Great question. I feel like, again, I'm not going to get every single fact. I feel like we're talking about the fifth century B.C. that's right. So in the, in the 400s, 400 B.C. this guy was rolling around and he was rolling everywhere, this guy. So. [00:08:33] Speaker B: Wow. [00:08:33] Speaker A: So like I said, you know, he's largely considered the first historian. He's also largely considered full of shit in a lot of ways. You know, most modern historians, or even, you know, not so modern historians take everything he did with everything he reported and, and wrote down with sort of a grain of salt because he did it from a skewed perspective, right? So he's Greek, so, you know, when he's talking about the Greeks and the Persians, he's gonna, you know, put a slant on, you know, it's gonna be anti Persian, pro Greek, right? So a lot of, A lot of, A lot of the things that he reported on, you know, were considered a little biased. So most historians take him with a grain of salt. However, the idea of having this firsthand knowledge of some of these great civilizations and events that happen in Herodotus lifetime are kind of too tempting to ignore, right? So they got to take some of it. So like I said, most people think he's full of ship, but, you know, and he was, like I said, he wasn't forgiving towards Persia. That's one of his biggest criticisms. But, you know, almost every historian I've ever listened to and, and by listening to, believe me, again, folks, I'm not studying history or anything, but I do love listening to, like, you know, lectures on history, especially ancient history and that kind of thing. And everyone I've listened to does, you know, use what he wrote and use what he passed down, and they kind of make the most of it. So what's cool about Herodotus not only being like one of the first historians, but he also, like, literally traveled, you know, through Asia, Africa, Europe to report on this pretty much firsthand. So he, like, he, he reported firsthand on the Persian Empire. He went to Egypt and reported firsthand in Egypt, you know, so what was happening in the 4th century, 5th century B.C. [00:10:18] Speaker B: He was, he was like the lowest lane of his time. [00:10:20] Speaker A: He really was. He was like. Yeah, he's like an old school reporter, right, who just kind of went around and, and you know, reported this shit. And like I said, you know, as, as biased as it might have been. Like, you know, most historians figure he must have gotten most of it right, you know, so they kind of. Yeah, yeah, yeah, they cut. They kind of take it at face value, but like I said with a grain of salt. I just think it's fascinating to, you know, to, to read something that was written down by someone who was literally, you know, I'm not saying he was, but at the court of like, you know, Darius the Great or like hanging out with, you know, and again, I'm not gonna embarrass myself by trying to think of which, you know, pharaoh was. Was ruling Egypt at the time, but. [00:10:59] Speaker B: Right. [00:11:00] Speaker A: I don't fucking know. But for someone to walk around and kind of. You write down the history and just feel a need to do that, I think that's really fucking cool. And you know, and Herodotus is, you know, any historian, you know, they can criticize as much as they want, but they all, they all fold in what he did as part of their, as part of their study. [00:11:18] Speaker B: Wow. Yeah, I. I don't know. For some reason I. When you said father of history, I was like, I don't know, Socrates, like, I don't know who the you were talking about. I never heard of this guy before. All right, all right. [00:11:27] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, it's, you know, and like I said, like. And you know, I'm not, I'm not trying to come up with the obscure people. Not the Herald is that obscure, but I'm not trying to come up with people. It's just like right now what I'm sort of talking about and into like, it just, it just struck me as he needed to be on the list. [00:11:40] Speaker B: And I know you've been, you've been big on the history podcast and all that, you know, right. World history and all that or. [00:11:46] Speaker A: No. Yeah, I love it. Yeah, it's like the, you know, the great courses. You know, it's the history of middle of medieval England and the history of Greece and the history of Rome, you know, just shit like that fascinates me. So lately I've been, I've been on a terror. Listen to that stuff. [00:11:56] Speaker B: Damn. Wow. [00:11:58] Speaker A: Father of history in our bitch. [00:11:59] Speaker B: I gotta say that's impressive. You know, I don't know. You know, that's that's something I. You know, you see, we're educational here. I never heard of this fucking guy. Nice job. You know, we're gonna learn. [00:12:08] Speaker A: We're learn from each other. [00:12:10] Speaker B: Well, you're not gonna learn anything from me because, you know, everyone on my list, as everyone does, but I. So I. So as I said, you know, I couldn't get away from the American history, so. So believe it or not, my top four are all American, so. So for number five, I had to throw somebody else in the mix here, you know. Now I didn't want to go with any kind of entertainment stuff. I was trying to historical shit, but for some reason I. The one I went with, and I'm gonna see what you think about this. I went with Leonardo da Vinci. Is that weird? You know? [00:12:38] Speaker A: No. Why would that be weird? Well, one of the greatest thinkers of all time. Really? [00:12:43] Speaker B: Yeah, because I feel like, you know, it's amazing to think about, like what I. Whenever I think most people think about him, especially, you know, people like me who don't have all the vast knowledge of you right away think about him as a painter, you know, but apparently this guy was a maniac with all this other shit. I mean, you know, right. I mean, like a scient in a way, right? [00:12:58] Speaker A: Or big time. Yeah. Scientist, thinker, philosopher. Yeah, he. He did a lot of cool. He conceived of the first airplane back in the. You know what it was, right. [00:13:07] Speaker B: 15Th century, which I always think about, like, you know, if he saw one now, you know, if he was around now, he'd be like, yeah, see, I saw this coming, you know, like, you wouldn't even be surprised. Probably, you know, nailed it. But, you know, one thing I was going to say too, was I another. Another cool experience I did have a chance to have was that I got a chance to go to Paris probably like 11 years ago now. I was with Katie at the time and you know, I was out there with. We met my buddy Joey over there, my friend Paul. You met a few people over there and you know, went to the Louvre, went in to see the Mona Lisa. And I gotta tell you, as soon as you walk in the room, it's like, there's. To me anyway, personally, it was like you felt an energy in the room as soon as you walked in it. It was really, really an interesting experience, you know, it just felt like there was something. I didn't even see the goddamn thing yet. I just walked into the room because it's in the room with all this other stuff, you know? [00:13:59] Speaker A: Yeah, right. [00:14:01] Speaker B: And I was like, holy shit. Like, you know, it just felt like there was. It was an instant, like, something weird is going on here. I don't know what it was, you know, And I think it's small. It's really not that big of a painting. [00:14:11] Speaker A: Yeah, that's what I heard. My brother Drew just got back from London and Paris, and he said the same thing, you know, But I mean, yeah, it's the most famous painting in the world, right? Of all time a lot of ways, right? [00:14:21] Speaker B: Probably. I think so. Yeah, man. It's definitely in the top. That's in the top five, I'll tell you that. Or top three. [00:14:28] Speaker A: All right, so high five. You know, paintings. That's definitely. We got to mark that down. [00:14:33] Speaker B: I think it's got to be. [00:14:34] Speaker A: Yeah, of course. [00:14:36] Speaker B: And that's awesome. Yeah. So, you know. Yeah, of course. I also think about the. I love that Pepe Le Pew episode when he's in the. He goes through the Louvre, and all the paintings come to life as they're smelling them, you know? [00:14:47] Speaker A: Oh, that's a classic. Yeah. [00:14:48] Speaker B: Stinking up. Stinking up the joint. [00:14:50] Speaker A: That might be the most famous Pepper Le Pew out there, right? [00:14:52] Speaker B: Maybe. Maybe. [00:14:53] Speaker A: Maybe. That was a good one. [00:14:55] Speaker B: You know, I was thinking about this too, like, because when you were. We were kids, I wasn't always like, oh, I can't wait to. You know. You know, like, when you never knew what you were gonna get on TV when you watch the Looney Tunes, but when Pepper Le Pew came on, I was always like, all right, fine. You know? [00:15:07] Speaker A: Yeah, but. [00:15:08] Speaker B: But as an adult, I've liked them because. Because of one thing that I've enjoyed watching when I do watch those is the instant reaction to the smell. And, like, it always makes me think of, like. Like, me when me and you were on the parkway going down to A.C. [00:15:24] Speaker A: Remember, like, when that smell of Hit. [00:15:28] Speaker B: Your nose, you wanted to murder me because you thought I fucking blew up the car, right? [00:15:32] Speaker A: I was like, are you fucking kidding me? Like, it was so bad. I was like, how did that come out of your ass? [00:15:37] Speaker B: And I was like, no, it was the. Oh, it was the ocean or whatever the hell where we were. [00:15:40] Speaker A: But it made me think city. [00:15:42] Speaker B: And maybe they get those Pepe Le Pew cartoons where it's like, as soon as that smell hits their nose, everyone's loses their shit, you know? [00:15:47] Speaker A: It's like, offended. You're like, oh, exactly. I think it's also hilarious that if we went back and listen to all the other pods, we've done so Far. I feel like we've worked Looney Tunes in every single one. [00:15:57] Speaker B: We probably have. Yeah. Yeah. Well, how could you not. [00:15:59] Speaker A: Rightfully so. Rightfully so. That was our first. First pod. [00:16:03] Speaker B: Yeah. But. Yeah. So I. And it's funny that, you know, again, you know, having all the Americans, I had to throw an Italian in there. Now I don't even know what the century is we're talking about here. I know. It's like late 1400s, early 1500s, from what I. [00:16:16] Speaker A: Great question. I was thinking about that myself. I feel like he was like the late 1400s. But that's. I'm. Don't quote me on that. Right. [00:16:22] Speaker B: Because. Because I looked up the Mona Lisa. They think. I don't know if it was. I think according to what I see, was like, 15. Like, I don't know, 1503-1516. It says on whatever Wikipedia thing is. Some of it means it took him that long to paint it, probably. [00:16:39] Speaker A: Or then we kind of nailed it then. He probably did all his work in the late 15th, early 16th century. That's good. So we kind of nailed it. Good job. [00:16:45] Speaker B: But. But that's a lot later than what you got on the list. So, you know. But that's. [00:16:49] Speaker A: I mean. Yeah. You know, again, I don't know why. It's just what it is. Leonardo. Leonardo was definitely on my original list. I mean, because of all the shit that he, you know, he not only accomplished, but also studied. You know, he was. He was way ahead of his time. He was. You know, he was the. He was the original Renaissance man. [00:17:03] Speaker B: Right. Yeah. [00:17:05] Speaker A: You know, so that was. Yeah, so he was. [00:17:07] Speaker B: He was. [00:17:08] Speaker A: He's a great pick. I think it's a good one. [00:17:09] Speaker B: Well, that's. And that's. That's the oldest one I have. So, you know. There we go. I got it. We got an Italian on there. For you. You know, that's a little gift for you. But. All right, what we got here, number four, is that we're going with. [00:17:19] Speaker A: All right. Yeah, my number four. So. All right, so. So we're moving ahead about 600 years. On my timeline, we're going from four, you know, the fifth century B.C. to the third century A.D. all right, okay. So we're in the Roman Empire here. And. And again, so this is the most, like, you know, this is the most, I don't know, not. Not cheap to be on my list, but. So this guy's on my list for one reason. So this is Diocletian, the Emperor Diocletian. Okay. Roman Empire, third century. So what this guy did, he saw that Rome was spread to. And again, folks, not a historian, I want to point that out. I'm telling you these facts as I understand them and that's just, you know, that, that's laughable. [00:18:02] Speaker B: But you spent all this, they spent the last five minutes talking about Looney Tunes. I think they know that you're not a historian. [00:18:07] Speaker A: Yeah, they did. They know they have an idea. So. Yeah, so this guy, this guy saw that the Roman Empire was stretched too thin. They were, you know, occupying too much territory. This was at the height of the Roman Empire. This was when Rome, you know, had North Africa, parts of Western Asia, England, right, And the entire Mediterranean. Huge. But they were spread too thin and they were, they were, they were facing, you know, not only like, you know, invaders and, you know, and civilizations on all sides, but resources and, you know, they're having trouble just maintaining the empire. So this guy, you know, this was called the crisis of, of the third century. So this guy decided to split the Roman Empire in tabs. He split it into the eastern half and the western half of the Roman Empire. And this one act by one emperor in the third century extended the Roman Empire for a thousand years. It gave them a thousand year lease. So what he did, so he spread, he spread them into two halves and set up what was called the first tetrarchy where they had, they appointed four different sort of emperors in like four quadrants of the Roman Empire each. You know, I want to say they were called Caesars and they were sort of responsible for sort of their area of the Roman Empire. Now, you know, the main emperor in Rome was still like, you know, the main emperor. But you know, these guys had a lot of autonomy and a lot of authority to do what they needed to do to maintain the empire. And this way, like if Persia attacks, Diocletian isn't running from the western half all the way to the eastern half to defend that, then all the way up to Britain to defend, you know, the emperor didn't have to go 70 places. But basically, like I said, the one reason this guy is such a big part of my list is because, you know, once the western half of the Roman Empire fell in 476 A.D. i should say when the last Roman emperor in the west was deposed, the eastern half thrived for another thousand years. You know, the Roman empire lasted until 1455. And it would not have if he didn't come up with this brilliant idea of just splitting, you know, the empire in half and sort of consolidating their power and, you know, not being stretched too thin. I mean, I think that's. That's fucking amazing. And I've always been fascinated with that one move because I've always been fascinated with the Byzantine Empire, which is what the Eastern Roman Empire was. And for some reason, I've always sort of gravitated towards Byzantine culture and just Constantinople and that whole Eastern half of the Roman Empire. I've always been more fascinated within the west, if you could believe that. And he's the guy who did this, so. [00:20:38] Speaker B: Yeah, so that's. [00:20:40] Speaker A: That's why he's on my list. Diocletian. I know it's kind of a deep cut, but, like, right now, just what I'm into right now. He had to make my list. [00:20:47] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, again, well, this is a name I definitely have heard, but I didn't. I didn't realize the whole history behind it. The idea of him, you know, splitting the whole thing and doing all that. Like you said, it's funny. You're like, I'm interested in that one move because it's. It's amazing that something like that had the effect it did for the amount of time that it did. You know what I mean? [00:21:04] Speaker A: And it was funny. I'm not even sure he knew it would. [00:21:06] Speaker B: Right. [00:21:06] Speaker A: I'm not even sure when he, you know, he said this, okay, I'm going to split this so we could live another thousand years. He had no fucking idea. Like, I think he saw the writing on the wall as far as, like, you know, you know, the barbarians were already at the gate and the Huns and, you know, were in, you know, Central Asia and they were, you know, making their way. And again, folks, please, if I'm talking out my ass, let us know. Give us. Shoot us an email. Let us know. [00:21:26] Speaker B: Give us a call. [00:21:27] Speaker A: Yeah, give us a call. Give it. Dial. Yeah, no, but, I mean, so, so. But either way, it was a fucking ballsy move, but one that he felt like he. He had to do. And I think that's. That's fucking amazing. I mean, you want to laugh? Like, I didn't do any other research. He probably did other cool shit, but, like, I only paid attention, like this, the one movie made. And that's. That's the only reason he's on the list. [00:21:48] Speaker B: Wow. Wow. Hey, listen, that's, that's, that's impressive, I gotta tell you, you know, big Diocletian. [00:21:54] Speaker A: Bringing it home for Rome. [00:21:55] Speaker B: Must have had a big day if he's doing, you know, power moves like that. Damn, that's right. [00:22:02] Speaker A: Big bees, at least. [00:22:04] Speaker B: Yeah, so. Yeah, well, that, well, that's all right. That's, that's at least we moved into the ad with your real ass pick there. [00:22:11] Speaker A: Don't worry. We're going, we're going back to bc. [00:22:13] Speaker B: Oh, okay. Okay. [00:22:15] Speaker A: At some point. [00:22:16] Speaker B: All right. All right, well, I guess we'll go on to my number four here. Now, this is, you know, number four. It doesn't get any more out of a more famous name than this, but I went with the hundred dollar bill here. I went with old Benjamin Franklin on this one. [00:22:29] Speaker A: Ben Frank, baby. Yeah. Yeah. [00:22:31] Speaker B: You know, I, for some reason, I've always been fascinated by him. I mean, I don't know how you can't be, you know, just the idea, first of all, I don't know why the first thing I think of is this, but. Because I want to. I want it to be like a cartoon image in my mind of him out in the rainstorm, flying a kite and getting struck by the lightning, you know, like, like it's not, it's not. It didn't happen the way I imagined it happening in my head, but like, it would be like, I picture him, like, with his hair all fucking fried up, walking into his wife, like, you know, honey, I think I found something, you know, like, like, like, like what? That. What the hell would that. [00:23:01] Speaker A: What. [00:23:02] Speaker B: What a feeling it must have been for him to have, you know, figured out that this is, I mean, you know, where the hell would be without this guy? I feel like, you know what I mean, like, 100%. It's unbelievable. And, and I, Again, I'm not a historical guy with him. I know that Ken Burns did a documentary on him. I haven't had a chance to watch. I want to watch. And then I know, I know Michael Douglas just came out with a thing where he's playing Benjamin Franklin in some kind of. I don't know if it'. [00:23:25] Speaker A: Really. [00:23:25] Speaker B: Yeah, I don't know what channel it was on, but. Yeah, but yeah, I, I, I definitely. And the same thing, too. I've actually never read a biography on him, so I, I keep wanting to do that, but I can't get away from reading about Buster Keaton. And, you know, I just. I'm actually reading a book on George Lucas right now, believe it or not, but. [00:23:43] Speaker A: Okay, nice. [00:23:44] Speaker B: I want to check. Oh, you know, because I know he. I think he's like, I'm gonna again, folks, I'm gonna be this all up. But I know, I know he was involved with, you know, A lot of things with the newspaper. Right. I mean. I mean, he invented. How many things the guy. I mean. Bifocals. I know he loved that. You know, one of the founding. So, you know. Yeah, I think so. Or something like that, anyway. And I know he was a big, like, guy that, like, helped us out with our relations with France. I know that he went over to France. [00:24:10] Speaker A: He was the ambassador to France, I believe, for a little while. Yeah. [00:24:13] Speaker B: Right, right, right. [00:24:13] Speaker A: Yeah. So, yeah, he was a statesman. He was. I mean, it's. I mean, he's Ben Franklin, man. Not only. He was witty as shit, you know, he was. He was funny dude, apparently, you know, when you read some of those quotes, you know. [00:24:25] Speaker B: Definitely. [00:24:25] Speaker A: I've been to the Franklin Institute a couple times. That. That's a lot of fun. Just going down. [00:24:28] Speaker B: Me too. [00:24:29] Speaker A: Check it out. [00:24:29] Speaker B: That's the one in. In Philly, right? [00:24:31] Speaker A: Yep, in Philly. Yeah. [00:24:32] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've been there a few times. Yeah. [00:24:33] Speaker A: Actually, yeah, we took Emma there not too long ago. [00:24:36] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:24:36] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:24:36] Speaker B: Oh, wow. [00:24:37] Speaker A: When I went there, they had the. Some of the dead ski scrolls were there, which was really cool. [00:24:41] Speaker B: No, yeah, so that was. [00:24:43] Speaker A: That was cool to see. We just kind of caught that by luck. We didn't know they were there. And then we showed up. It's like, oh, awesome. [00:24:47] Speaker B: And I think. I actually think we did a class trip there when I was a kid, because I went in. When I went in there, you know, what I remembered was that what's the thing when you go in the theater, they have the movie, like, on the sky there and all that. [00:24:58] Speaker A: Yeah, the. Like the planetarium. [00:24:59] Speaker B: Planetarium, yeah. [00:25:00] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:25:00] Speaker B: That was cool. I like that. That was. [00:25:01] Speaker A: Oh, I love planetariums. Yes. One of my favorite things to do when I was a kid and we didn't. You know, it's funny. I missed my school trip to the Franklin Institute. I was sick, I think. I think. Wow. We tried doing that in fourth grade, and I was sick for it. I couldn't. I couldn't go. So. [00:25:16] Speaker B: Wow. [00:25:16] Speaker A: We went. You know, I went when I was a teenager and then, you know, we. Like I said we took. We took our daughter Emma a few years back. It was a lot of fun. Yeah, Franklin was a shit. You know, you're right, though. I haven't seen many like. Like, you know, I watched the. You know, John Adams is really good. The Body one. [00:25:31] Speaker B: I was just gonna say that I've never watched that. And I was thinking the same thing, like, outside of the Patriot with Mel Gibson, like, I Can't think of a lot of revolutionary. You would think there'd be a ton of revolutionary warship, but I don't really remember. Lot of, A lot of like about the Declaration of Independence. Has there been a movie about like even the guys in the room signing that or talking about that? Like, you know. [00:25:48] Speaker A: Sure there has, but I. [00:25:50] Speaker B: Something. [00:25:50] Speaker A: You know what I mean? Yeah, there was a movie called, you know, obviously the Patriot you mentioned. There's a. There was a Pacino movie called Revolution that came out in the early 80s that I saw. [00:25:58] Speaker B: Oh, really? [00:25:58] Speaker A: Wasn't. Wasn't that good? Yeah, yeah, but. But you're right, like, you know, they. We tend to focus nowadays on, you know, World War II movies. [00:26:08] Speaker B: World War II, definitely. [00:26:11] Speaker A: Even. Yeah, but very. I haven't seen much on the Revolutionary War, but then again, like I said, you know, maybe I'm just missing certain, certain movies, but the Franklin I know was a character in John Adams, but again, not, you know, he was just kind of. Yeah. I mean, if I'm remembering correctly, I think all the founding fathers were in that at some point. But. And it's funny, I can't deny it. Franklin. [00:26:30] Speaker B: I did at one point there went back in the day. I did. I was in the play 1776. And I don't. It's a musical play, but I, I. And there's other people out here that are way more versed in that play than I am. I played a very small role, but I didn't do any singing obviously, because I can't really sing. [00:26:48] Speaker A: But do you remember the character you played? [00:26:51] Speaker B: I don't remember his name, but I was kind of like a waiter, basically. You know, I was like a waiter in the, in the. [00:26:57] Speaker A: In Independence hall, basically. Yeah. [00:27:00] Speaker B: And it was something like that, like wherever they went and hung out or whatever. But. But the only thing I remember about doing that play. And again, I don't. Historically accurate this is. I'm sure it's not, but I don't know if they went. I'm only asking because I wonder if they went into any of this in the Paul Gmount of them. But there was a scene where I believe it was John Adams talking to Benjamin Franklin. Maybe it was Thomas Jefferson, but I think it was Adams talking to Franklin and they were talking about slavery and Franklin said that battle will come later. We need to worry about this first. You know, I always thought that was such an interesting quote and I always wondered if it was a real thing that happened. But you know, I don't know if. [00:27:38] Speaker A: Somebody to know that the writing was on the wall. You mean, like, he kind of knew. [00:27:43] Speaker B: Yeah, that he knew that. He knew that something like that was going to come to a head, you know, because. Because I don't know how those guys couldn't. Because it's so. I mean, it's easy for us to look at it now because we don't know what it was like to live back then. But it's just the idea that everybody's free except for these people. You know what I mean? Like, it does. It's like. It's like. It's crazy that they had all. So I like the idea that he had that foresight in him. [00:28:05] Speaker A: In. [00:28:05] Speaker B: And that there was at least a conversation, which I'm sure maybe there was, about the whole thing in the beginning, but I don't know how it all went down. But I was wondering if they. If they addressed that in the, like, in the John Adams thing. Did they ever talk about anything like that, or was it mostly. [00:28:17] Speaker A: I mean, you know, they mentioned slavery, you know, here and there, but. Yeah, but it wasn't like. It wasn't like, you know, the topic of discussion. So I don't know Franklin had any of those conversations. [00:28:27] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:28:28] Speaker A: You know, it was largely about independence, you know. [00:28:32] Speaker B: Right. [00:28:32] Speaker A: So. And it was before the first president, so it was largely about, you know, just the independence from Britain. You know, what's interesting, though, is I just started reading a book called. I think it's called the Demon of Unrest. I think it's called. You think I'd know the title? I'm just reading it. But it's, you know, it's over there on the table. But it's about. It's about the years leading up to the Civil War and the slavery issue. [00:28:48] Speaker B: Oh, wow, That's. [00:28:49] Speaker A: Yeah, it's funny. So that's. That's. It's funny you mentioned that because so far it's fascinating. Just the, you know, the events that are sort of, you know, coming into play that will lead to Lincoln's election, you know, victory and, you know, eventually, you know, secession from the Union and kind of stuff, so. [00:29:05] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:29:06] Speaker A: Interesting. Yeah. [00:29:07] Speaker B: I also think it's funny, too, that I think there's so many people, Americans even, that believe Franklin was a president. You know what I mean? [00:29:14] Speaker A: Like, it's funny that, you know, still to this day. Right. I mean, you know, you have that. There's that. That line from a wire, you know, where he's like. They talk about, you know, Frank. Frank wasn't president. He's like, you hear me? He's on the dollar bill, ain't he? He's on the money. He's a president. You know, they just think. [00:29:29] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, you know. [00:29:30] Speaker A: Yeah, it's Hamilton. Hamilton wasn't either. [00:29:32] Speaker B: You know, Hamilton either. Right, you know, that's right. That's right. No, but. [00:29:35] Speaker A: Yeah, no, but. But you think of him as. He's a founding father. He's on the 100 bill. Like, how was he not a president? You know, I think it took me till third grade to get that out of my head that he wasn't a president. [00:29:43] Speaker B: Yeah, right. Yeah, probably. Yeah, for me, too. I don't know. [00:29:46] Speaker A: But. [00:29:47] Speaker B: But, yeah, that's number four. So let's keep it moving here. Well, again, it's the top three here now. What do you got? [00:29:53] Speaker A: All right, let's do it. So, yeah, so this is. This is the most modern. Modern one I have on my list. And we're talking the late 8th century, early 9th century. So this is a. This is Charlemagne, you know, Charlemagne, the. The emperor of the Holy Roman empire in the 9th. In the early 9th century. So. So Charlemagne, or Charles the Great, was. He was the leader of the Carolingian Empire. And this was what is now modern day France and Germany, mostly in France, or Frankia, as it was called then, I believe. And again, folks, I'm not trying to sound like I know what the I'm talking about, please, so understand. I'm just, as is my limited understanding. So. So Charlemagne. So a couple cool things about Charlemagne. So. But, you know, he did some cool things. The Carolingian Empire was the. The power in Europe in the, you know, in. In the late 8th and early 9th century. So the late 700s and early 800s, you know, so. So one aspect is he. He was, he was a good military leader. So he fought off the Saxons in Germany, which. So if you're in France, to your, you know, to the east is, you know, the Saxons. So he kind of fought them off, you know, kept them at bay and sort of folded them into the Carolingian Empire, or the Holy Roman Empire as it became known. He fought off the Lombards in northern Italy. So when Rome was, you know, the last Roman emperor in the west was deposed in 476. The. I want to say the Ostrogoths took over southern Italy, and then the Lombards ended up taking control of northern Italy. Italy, my, My boys, the Byzantines, tried to take back Italy. Once the Byzantine Empire, you know, gained power, they got southern Italy for a little while, but they never deposed the, The Lombards I don't think so, you know, so he's fighting wars on multiple fronts. Okay. But the real, the real cool thing about Charlemagne was his sort of. And everyone in the Middle Ages had a love for all things ancient, like, you know, up, up to and including the Renaissance. You could not do better than the Greeks and the Romans. Like they were still, until the Enlightenment. I want to say, like, antiquity was lauded as like the golden age. So everyone was constantly trying to recreate that. And what Charlemagne did was he was the first emperor crowned by a Pope since the last Roman emperor in 476 was deposed. So on Christmas Day in 800, I want to say, what's the name? Pope Leo III crowned Charlemagne the Holy Roman Emperor. So it wasn't even the Roman Empire, but they were still calling themselves the Holy Roman Emperor. The Holy Roman Empire. Right. That's how, like, that's how much of a power like Rome had over the hearts and minds of, of people in Europe for, for centuries after. So, yeah, so, so this was a big deal considering that. So the Byzantines, the Roman Empire, in other words, had always held power over who gets crowned Emperor. Like what, you know, control over the popes and such. So Charlemagne was the first to be like, no, no, I'm, I'm the. And you know, and you're gonna crown me emperor. He expanded the Frankian Empire further than it had ever gone. He even conquered some territory that Rome never, never conquered. There were some parts of, you know, Germany that Rome never got north to. And you know, he conquered those and folded them into the, into the Carolingian Empire. Right, so, so during a time known as the Dark Ages, right? A time where like, nobody really knows a lot about and pays attention to other than like Middle Age, you know, early middle aged historians, you know, Charlemagne's was this huge figure that ruled a vast empire and he essentially became the father of Europe as we know it today. The next book on my list is actually called Charlemagne, Father of Europe. I'm gonna, gonna read that next after I finish this one. [00:33:51] Speaker B: Europe's daddy. [00:33:52] Speaker A: Europe's daddy. That's right. Yeah. So, I mean, what could I say, you know, Charlemagne. Not only is he a great historical figure, but it's fun to say his name. [00:34:01] Speaker B: Well, I was gonna say, of course, the only thing I know about Charlemagne is what I found heartbreak. Heartbreaking to found out isn't even really true. Apparently, you know, right away, of course, my mind immediately goes to Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade. Right? What are we doing here when, when you know, you Know part of torment or. [00:34:22] Speaker A: No, I'm fuzzy. Good. Fill me in. Help me out. [00:34:25] Speaker B: When, when him and his dad are escaping from the, from the, the castle. [00:34:30] Speaker A: They take them out. [00:34:31] Speaker B: They, they, they take the motorcycle. Is it after the blimp? After the blimp. They take the blimp to get on the plane, the plane crashes, then they're on. They seal the guy's car, and they get out of the car after the bomb goes off and blows them up. And the car hits the fucking pothole with the. [00:34:47] Speaker A: Closer than that. Yeah. Right. [00:34:49] Speaker B: So they run onto the beach and there's all the, all the birds on there. And then, you know, Indiana Jones out of bullets. He doesn't know what the hell to do. And planes coming back. So Sean Connery takes an umbrella and he scares the birds up. And to kill the plane, the plane crashes into the mountain. And then Indiana Jones looking at him with, you know, awe almost, and he walks past him with his umbrella saying, I suddenly remember my Charlemagne. Let my armies be the rocks and the birds and the, or the birds in the sky or trees, whatever the quote is. But then I listen to my Indiana Jones by the Minute podcast by these guys. Apparently. He didn't, he didn't do that. [00:35:23] Speaker A: He didn't say that. [00:35:25] Speaker B: Yeah, I was like, why would they, why would they fuck that up? You know? [00:35:28] Speaker A: Yeah, dude, I, I, you know what? I haven't, I don't think I've watched that movie since I've been into, like, the Middle Ages, you know, I mean, so I, Right. I always knew the name and I remembered the name, and I think I vaguely remembered it being from one of the Indiana Jones movies, but I totally forgot about that scene in relation to Charlemagne's name getting dropped there. So that's awesome. [00:35:47] Speaker B: It makes me wonder why that if he wasn't attributed to the quote or whatever, you know, Sean Connor was talking out there. I wonder why they would pick his name. There had to be a reason that maybe those guys that did their podcast weren't. Didn't do their research. Right. Or, or they didn't understand what Spielberg was doing there. Like, I don't know. It has to be a reason why they use. [00:36:04] Speaker A: Or we give Spielberg, you know, we're not giving Spielberg enough credit or whoever wrote the screenplay. And maybe, like, Maybe in the 30s, they thought charlamagne. [00:36:13] Speaker B: That's true too. Maybe. [00:36:14] Speaker A: I mean, who knows, right? Yeah, that's, that's a reach. I'm sure, I'm sure it was just a, it's just a misquote. You know, kind of the. That gets passed along that you. You take for fact and you just. It kind of isn't, you know. [00:36:24] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:36:24] Speaker A: Who the knows? [00:36:26] Speaker B: Well, I'm gonna continue to steam of not only Americans, but money. And I'm gonna go with my number three. My number three is gonna be old G.W. here. We got. We gotta go George Washington. Right? [00:36:37] Speaker A: What are we doing, George? [00:36:38] Speaker B: Yeah, you know, another one that I. Another guy I wish I had to read a biography on because, you know, you learn this stuff when you're younger. And as we get older, like, I don't have to admit I don't. I feel like we should. I mean, what else could we do to honor the guy? He's got. He's got. He's on. He's on the. He's on money. He's on coins. He's not. He's got a monument. He's got states and towns and named after him. What are we doing? [00:36:58] Speaker A: Mount Rushmore. His birthday. Celebrated every year. [00:37:01] Speaker B: His birthday. [00:37:02] Speaker A: But. [00:37:02] Speaker B: But when you think about mutual. [00:37:04] Speaker A: And the capital city in the country's named after him. We got a lot going for him. [00:37:08] Speaker B: Yeah. You know, but. But it's like when you think about it, it's like, you know, we're not here without that guy. Well, you know, what the fuck, you know, like for whatever research. I remember looking at news like, if he doesn't do that Delaware river routine and fucking sneak up on those motherfuckers and win that. Win that battle there, we might not even fucking be here. You know what I mean? [00:37:25] Speaker A: Like, it's so true. [00:37:26] Speaker B: It's crazy thing how much of an underdog we were and we won. That thing is amazing to think of. Actually. We were there. But you know what I mean, like. [00:37:33] Speaker A: You know, we did it, guys. We fucking did it. [00:37:37] Speaker B: But yes, and it's in the same vein like I think about like Spielberg did the Lincoln movie with what the. [00:37:44] Speaker A: Hell is Daniel Day Lewis? [00:37:45] Speaker B: Daniel Day Lewis. And like here's another one where it's like, you know, how is it never. I can't think of one actor or at least big name actor that's played him in a major movie. You know what I mean? [00:37:53] Speaker A: Right. [00:37:53] Speaker B: Or has ever been a Washington movie. I mean, how is that? How is that. [00:37:55] Speaker A: No, David Morse was really good playing him in Jack John Adams miniseries I told you about, but. [00:38:00] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:38:01] Speaker A: Other than that. Yeah. You don't. You don't see much about Washington. You know, I. I don't know why we. Maybe because he's Just such a part of, like, you know, our. Our folklore, you know, he's such a legend and myth at this. Not a myth, but a legend at this point that you kind of. I don't know if there's a lot of stuff to mind there, you know, I mean. I mean, I had never seen a Lincoln movie until Lincoln came out, you know. [00:38:22] Speaker B: Yeah, that was another thing, too. I know there was. There was a movie with Henry Fonda back in the day called Young Mr. Lincoln. I think it's something like that. And I was always like, you know, I never wanted to check it out. I would probably check it out now. But when I was younger, I was like, you were always fascinated by the end of his life more than, you know, the assassination, you know, young Mr. Lincoln. I don't want to learn about politics when you're younger anyway. But I. But, yeah, I agree. Same thing there. But it's like, you know, and when I, Like. Like when I think about George Washington, it's like, you know, I always think about Bugs Bunny again. Like, wasn't there a cartoon where, like, they talk about him chopping down a cherry tree and, you know, everybody talks about the wooden teeth and everything, and it's like, you know, like Woody Woodpecker, too, right? [00:39:03] Speaker A: Where it was like. When he was like, I cannot tell a lie. He made me do it. Right. Yes, yes, yes. [00:39:09] Speaker B: I gotta be honest. I had completely forgotten all about that until you just mentioned it now. [00:39:13] Speaker A: But he came back, right? [00:39:15] Speaker B: Yeah, I. Yeah, 100%. Yeah. And it's funny, too, because, like, even Washington, D.C. i've been through twice. And I went to Mount Vernon where he had the house. I think his house is there as a museum. But Martha. I couldn't think of his goddamn wife's name. Martha Martin. [00:39:30] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:39:31] Speaker B: And we went there as a. When we were kids, and I don't remember a goddamn thing about it. And I went. Last time I went there was when I first started dating Allison. But we didn't go to Mount Vernon, so I didn't get to see all of that. I didn't check any of that out. Which next time, if I get down, I'd like to, you know, see it as an adult. And, you know, because I think it's interesting. I don't know, again, it's like, you know, the guy was a general. The guy was a fucking, you know, the first president. What are we doing here? You know? [00:39:55] Speaker A: I mean, I'll tell you what, if I learned a ton about him. Not that I remembered all of it, of Course, but reading the Hamilton book, the one that the play was based on by Ron Chernobyl, I think Ron Chernoff just called Hamilton. I mean, you know, Hamilton had a close, close relationship and then a subsequent falling out and then, you know, sort of an on and off thing with, with Washington. But you learn a ton about Washington, especially during the war. You know, Hamilton was pretty much one of his confidants and you know, during, during the war. So you learn a ton about Washington and his character because Hamilton writes a ton about him. You know what I mean? So, yeah, you know, we have these first hand accounts of what the man Washington was like. [00:40:30] Speaker B: So cool. [00:40:31] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, it's definitely worth, definitely worth reading that book at some point. It's long and it's dense, but it's. If you're interested in American history, especially you know, revolutionary history, it is, it's, it's a fascinating book. And like I said, obviously Lin Manuel Miranda used that as his basis for writing for the, you know, the play Hamilton. [00:40:49] Speaker B: Really good. It's interesting too. It's like when you think about some of those early guys, like, I, I know there's some awesome, interesting photographs of like a Lincoln, you know, from like back back then or like, you know, but there's not. We don't have anything in Washington. Right. There's no actual picture of what this guy looked like. You know, like, it's crazy. [00:41:05] Speaker A: The first photo wasn't taken until like the 1830s, so. [00:41:09] Speaker B: Is that right? Oh, wow. [00:41:10] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. I think if I'm getting that right, the first picture ever, I think it was in the 1830s, I think. [00:41:17] Speaker B: Take it by Jimmy Kodak, if I'm not mistaken. No, I'm just walking around. [00:41:22] Speaker A: Who took that? You know, like Frankie, you know, picks Pay I X Pix, was it? Yeah, so. So not a lot. Just portraits really. But yeah. I mean, when did he die? Like, did he die before? I feel like he did die before. [00:41:37] Speaker B: Oh, he. I, I think, I think he definitely did. I was gonna say. [00:41:39] Speaker A: Yeah, so then there wouldn't be early. [00:41:42] Speaker B: 1800S or maybe even late. Not late 1700s. Maybe late. Maybe late 1700s. Let me look it up right now. [00:41:47] Speaker A: I don't think so. He didn't become president until like 1789. Right. Or something like that. Or in. [00:41:52] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Yes, we died in se. He died on. In December of 1799. [00:41:58] Speaker A: Is that right? Holy. Okay. He didn't even live to see the 1800s. Interesting. [00:42:01] Speaker B: No. Yeah. [00:42:02] Speaker A: So then, yeah, no photos. Just. Just that, you know, you see that He's. His face is etched in our brains. Right. Just from the portrait and the dollar bill and they got, you know, is. It's, it's, it's. We know what he looks like. Everyone in America really does, if you think about it. [00:42:16] Speaker B: Yeah, definitely. [00:42:19] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:42:19] Speaker B: That's all right. Listen, you know, we're going along there, so, you know, but that's, that's number three. So now we're getting to the top two here. Are you nervous? I'm getting a little nervous now. We're going to top two here. [00:42:29] Speaker A: I'm feeling good about my, My top two. Tell you the truth. I think this one. I'm shocked. This one wasn't in your top five. This is really. [00:42:39] Speaker B: Oh, I like this. I like this. All right. [00:42:42] Speaker A: I mean, this is like when I first thought of, like the two names that popped in my head when I first thought of a. Thoracic figures was Napoleon and this name, Alexander the Great. Now you know what a. You know, what a. What a presence. You know, the legend, the myth around Alexander the Great. So. Yes. I mean, you know, and again, I'm not lecturing people on who Alexander the Great was. I think we all know, you know, have an idea of who he was, but he was a master Macedonian who, Whose father, by the way, was in contention to be on this list as well. Philip of Macedon was the. And he did a lot of great things and set the table for Alexander to really do what he did. [00:43:19] Speaker B: I was just. You like me. His name is Philip. [00:43:21] Speaker A: You. That's right. I thought about Philip II of France. I thought about, you know, Prince Philip. I thought, you know, going through all the fills. There's not many. [00:43:30] Speaker B: No, no. [00:43:32] Speaker A: But, you know, so. Yeah, so Alexander. [00:43:36] Speaker B: So. [00:43:37] Speaker A: So, you know, this guy invades Persia on revenge. Pretty much. For. For Persia invasing, you know, invading Athens, you know, whatever. It was a century before, 80 years before. Again, you know, I don't know. But. So he conquers the Persian Empire, you know, at this young age. Right. And then doesn't stop. So, you know, militarily speaking, every battle, he never lost a battle. Alexander's army never lost a battle. [00:44:01] Speaker B: Wow. That's insane. So he's like the Rocky Marciano of his. Of his time. [00:44:05] Speaker A: He is, right? Yeah. The. The. What is it? The. I forgot the year. The dolphins. [00:44:10] Speaker B: Yes. I want to say 72, but. [00:44:12] Speaker A: Yeah. 72 dolphins, right. [00:44:15] Speaker B: That's hilarious. [00:44:16] Speaker A: Wow. [00:44:16] Speaker B: I never knew that. [00:44:17] Speaker A: Undefeated. Yeah. [00:44:18] Speaker B: Wow. [00:44:18] Speaker A: Yeah. Never lost a battle. [00:44:20] Speaker B: So. [00:44:21] Speaker A: So not only did he, you know, did he just expand, you know, Greece and Macedonian, you know, territory onto Asia. I mean, he went as far in as Pakistan, Afghanistan, and India. Like, he made it as far as India and. And, you know, and. And, I mean, who knows what he would have done if his. If his. His army wasn't like, we're done. Like, we can't. We're just gonna march on forever. Like, we got wives and we gotta go home. You know, so he. Not only did he survive all these battles, he survived the revolt. Pretty much. His. His army, like, pretty much, you know, came close to. I can't even think of the name. A mutiny. You know, it's not a ship. They almost mutinied. Yeah. So they were, like, looking, and finally he said, all right, fine, fine, fine. Let's turn back. But of course, on his way back, he hit a key or he zigzagged and hit, you know, conquered a couple more territories. But so not only. Not only did he march this army across Europe and Asia, you know, and. And conquer the known world at the time. Obviously, you know, Far east was, you know, China was a thing. And, you know, so he didn't conquer, you know, China. I'm not even sure he knew 100 of their existence, but he conquered what was the known world to him at the time. You know, like I said, never lost in battle, but really, you know, so. So he left his mark on. On all the territories that he marched through. Right. So not only is there, like, an Alexandria in every country that he, you know, that he marched through, you know, Alexandra being exactly. Right, right. And that was named after. [00:45:53] Speaker B: Right, right. [00:45:54] Speaker A: It's named after him. And, you know, in Alexandria, you know, with the lighthouse and the. The great library that was there until it burned down, you know, so he established trade across these. These great distances that was never there before. You know, Europe was not trading with India at the time, at least not in a. In a sort of, you know, productive, commercial way, but, you know, he established all those trade routes. So not only do they establish all those trade routes, but, you know, he also. He conquered Egypt as well and, you know, left the. You know, when he died, there was this. You know, this void of, you know, this. What is it called? The leadership vacuum. Right. So, you know, so his generals carved up what was left after he died. So, you know, the. You know, the Ptolemy, the Ptolemaic dynasty in Egypt. So, you know, so Greece, even after he died, Greece still had, like, a stranglehold on Greece and Macedon, you know, still had a stranglehold on. On the known world. But, yeah, so. So, I mean, just Alexander the Great, just his impact that he had on the ancient world, you know, his. His victories are still, like, studied. And his. You know, his. His. His legacy is still all through. All through Europe and Asia. It's. It's. It's pretty amazing. And to do all that, by the time he was, like, whatever, he was, like, 33, I think, when he died. Pretty amazing. [00:47:11] Speaker B: Wow. He was only 33 when he died, huh? [00:47:14] Speaker A: Only at the oldest, I feel like he was. I might as. I think. I was thinking 27, but I think that's just, you know, all the famous people. Yeah, yeah, you're right. Elvis, Jimmy Morrison, Janis Joplin, and Jimi Hendrix and Jim Morrison, and they're all 27. [00:47:30] Speaker B: What was. [00:47:31] Speaker A: I got that wrong. [00:47:32] Speaker B: What was the age of. What was the time of his existence here? We're talking about. [00:47:36] Speaker A: He was in the. I want to say the third century B.C. oh, wow. [00:47:40] Speaker B: He's that long ago. Wow. [00:47:42] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, he was. Or maybe even. Maybe even the 4th century BC I feel like in the 3rd. The 3002 BC he was marching around, doing his thing. Folks, if I'm wrong about that, I apologize again, I'm not a fucking historian. I'm just going off the. [00:47:55] Speaker B: And how big does this dick have to be if. If after his name is the Great? I mean. I mean, you know, I mean, that's like. Like I would like it to be Brian the Shit, you know? Like, that would be phenomenal. [00:48:06] Speaker A: Like, that's the second the Great on my list, if you're keeping track there. Charlemagne means Charles the Great. [00:48:14] Speaker B: Oh, you. You bet. You did mention that. That's right. You did mention that. Yeah. [00:48:16] Speaker A: And there's a lot of greats out there. We could. We could have jumped on Catherine the Great. We could have jumped on. There's a lot of greats to be had in history, but I think you earn it, too. I don't think that's something where you just say, all right, you know, I'm going to be called, you know, Phil the Big Dick, and the rest of Europe calls me that. But nope, you got to earn it. [00:48:31] Speaker B: Gretzky is the Great one, right? [00:48:33] Speaker A: He is the Great One. Earn that. Better believe it. Yeah. I mean, there's so much more to say about Alexander the Great. But you know what? [00:48:42] Speaker B: Sure. [00:48:42] Speaker A: I'm not. I'm not schooled enough to tell you everything about him, but, you know, he was. He was. He was an awesome historical figure, in my opinion. Number two. [00:48:52] Speaker B: I mean, listen, that's. That's phenomenal. Great choice. No pun intended. Now, my, my, my number two, I gotta tell you, this is one that has always. This person has fascinated me from when I first learned about this person. I was either in second or third grade. And I gotta be honest with you, now I've read a biography. I've actually read two different biographies. And I'm still not gonna be great at explaining my knowledge of this person, but it's the only female on my list. I got a female on the list. [00:49:24] Speaker A: Good for you. I was hoping one of us would. [00:49:26] Speaker B: Do you have any. Would you like to wager a gamble? A little guess here? Now, again, I'm going American here. This is an American female. [00:49:34] Speaker A: I mean, I mean, there, there's a few could be on there, right? [00:49:39] Speaker B: There's a few. [00:49:40] Speaker A: Keeping with, keeping with the timeline that you've been in so far. You know, you got your, you know, your Betsy Ross's and your. [00:49:47] Speaker B: I actually don't know about Betsy Ross. [00:49:49] Speaker A: I don't know much either. You know, I'm just trying to think of famous women from that time. [00:49:54] Speaker B: Yeah, it's a little bit later than that. I'll say that a little bit later. [00:49:57] Speaker A: Maybe like, like a Harriet Tubman type thing. [00:50:00] Speaker B: There you go. There you go. Good for you. Yes, good for you. You nailed it. All right, all right. It's funny. It's funny too, because when I was a kid, I was like, wow, she invented the subway. Like, what's going on here? You know? I was like, what the. I had no idea what the hell this whole thing was, you know, like. And, and, and for some reason I've always thought that this, this story is like one of the most amazing things I've ever heard of, you know, And. [00:50:21] Speaker A: I just make a movie about it, I think. [00:50:23] Speaker B: So I was good. Yes. I was gonna bring that up because of. I was same thing. I've always thought, why? How has there not been a movie made about this person? You know? And then I read the reviews for it and the reviews weren't good. Then I heard, I was reading that they, they took some liberties in the story and I was like, ah, you know why her story is so good? I don't think you need to make up, but again, I know it's Hollywood making, so eventually I will check it out. I just wasn't rushing out to see it once I heard some of that stuff. But I do want to watch that. But, but it's like, it's almost like. You know what that reminded me of was Miracle. [00:50:56] Speaker A: Mm. [00:50:56] Speaker B: With, with Kurt Russell Where I loved, I loved. I think I might have watched this. I might have watched it at your house, actually, with Drew. I can't remember. What I do remember about is watching it. Somebody had the dvd and we watched DVD and on the dvd and the movie was great. I love the movie. But then there was the documentary of the movie. [00:51:12] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:51:13] Speaker B: And that was better than the movie. And I feel like it's the same thing with this. It's like, you know, when you, when you, when you learn this whole story was the one thing. I mean, there's a few things I do remember, but one of the, one of the things I was gonna bring up was the fact that she was married. And when she heard that there was a opportunity to go up north and, you know, escape and do this, her husband didn't want to go and he, you know, and she was, she was begging him to go and he didn't want to go. And so. And she snuck out in the middle of the night and left them behind to go. Wow. Like. Like this woman, the balls you had in a pitch black to go through the swamps and all the shit that they desperate and then not only to make it the safety, but then to come back, you know what I mean? And to get other people to bring them to safety. It's like, I, I can't believe that there was somebody out there that, that, that alive that did this. And then. Yeah, now I know there was talk lately a bit by maybe putting her on like some of the other $20 bills on. I don't know about any of that, but she, she should be. Have something like, we can't get a monument for her in Washington D.C. like, you know, I, I think this woman, I, I am endlessly fascinated by what. The guts that she had to have to do this at that time. Like, it's, it's. I, I can't believe that this woman existed. I really have to say that. You know what I mean? [00:52:22] Speaker A: Like, yeah, well, well put. I mean, that's a great choice, you know. And, and you know, again, obviously, you know, I, I didn't just, just speaking about women, there was, there was. I was gonna put one woman on my list, right? This is like, this is like obviously keeping with my theme. This was like the first like, like female pharaoh in Egypt. Her name is Hatches Put. I think I'm saying that right. Hatches Put. But I want to bring this up to tell you that, like, good for you for thinking, you know, outside the box a little bit. Like in my, in my time Ancient, you know, antiquity. Like, there's not many famous women who would be a candidate for this. But. But good for you for taking along all lines. [00:53:06] Speaker B: But you know what's funny is. Well, first of all, I was gonna say. I was gonna ask you before when you told me I was gonna. The great. Was Cleopatra around the same time as him or that? Not. I thought they had. [00:53:14] Speaker A: It was about four, 400 years after. [00:53:17] Speaker B: Oh, it was. She was. Okay. Okay. [00:53:18] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:53:18] Speaker B: So I was wrong. But I. Yeah, again, it wasn't one of those things where it was like, oh, I gotta have a woman on here. You know what I mean? Or whatever it was. It was just one of those things where it's like I said, like, to me, the top two were always in my head. I've always thought that. Like I said, when I learned about her, I was younger, I was so fascinated by her that, you know. And again, it was one of the things I said for years, too. I was like, how is it not a movie about this woman? And then they finally came out with one and I haven't even seen it. [00:53:41] Speaker A: Or fucking birthday, right? Like, you know, let's celebrate her fucking birthday. You know what I mean? Like, not anything away from Washington, Lincoln, mlk, any of those guys. But, like, why? Like, why, like you said, the bravery, the fucking balls, like, you know, that she had, you know, to. To do this. This courageous, you know, thing with her life. Like. Like, you know, why not celebrate her birthday? Like, why not have. [00:54:02] Speaker B: You know, I know there should be something. I feel like there's. There's an opportunity for something with her. It's like, you know, because it made me think of. I know they added from when I was a kid till now, like in Washington, D.C. i know they've added. I mean, they've added a lot of things, but I know, I know that. I know that. I think they added Martin Luther King statue there and they've added an FDR honor memorial thing there. But. But I would like to see something with her. Like, what the. You know, like, you know, something. I think she. And I know people. Again, people were arguing about the 20 bill, and I don't know anything about Andrew Jackson. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know if people just wanted to get rid of him and throw her on. Did you remember hearing about that where they were talking about putting around a 20 bill? [00:54:39] Speaker A: No, I didn't hear about that. I mean, I've heard stories about Jackson, how he kind of sucked, but. [00:54:43] Speaker B: Oh, really? Okay. I Don't know anything about it, to be honest with you. But, but, but I was thinking, you know, even if you didn't want to put her on money, you know, just. I think there's got, there's an opportunity for something to be done with her. I mean, she got the movie. Yeah, okay, but you know, whatever. [00:54:55] Speaker A: She got movie. She's got some stamps here and there and. But like other than that, like. [00:54:58] Speaker B: Yeah, right. You know, right. [00:54:59] Speaker A: Give her, give her her credit, her due, you know, I mean, Lincoln's gonna get 99 of the credit. She should at least get 1%. Yeah, exactly. You know what I mean? [00:55:08] Speaker B: Exactly, exactly. But yeah, well, that's it, you know, so now we're getting down to it here. Number one. What do we got? [00:55:15] Speaker A: Good pick. Number one. Yeah. So this is, this is a, this is the, the textbook definition of a personal favorite. It's someone people have heard of and he is awesome. But like, for me, I want to see a movie about this motherfucker. So my number one pick is Hannibal. Wow, Hannibal Barca. That's right. First of all, I wish my name was Hannibal Barca. First of all, that would be really awesome. Or his father, which is even a cool. His father's name was Hamilcar Bacca. This cool ass names right? So yeah, if, if I die and you get a chance of renaming, go with Hannibal. That's really awesome. So this guy, so I mean this guy's my number one right now anyway, because this guy had the Roman Empire by the balls, okay? Like in the heyday of Rome, which is very roughly considered 200 BC to 200 AD right in that kind of time. So right before that era, like in like I want to say in the 220s BC, Rome fought two wars. Two puny. The First Punic War and the Second Punic War against Carthage. Carthage was a territory in North Africa who was fighting for control of the Mediterranean at the time when Rome was really rising to power. And Hannibal was from. From Carthage. He was a Carthagenian. So I mean this guy was a military genius. He was an absolute genius. He was one of the best generals of all time. This is actually, it's kind of cool. So like even like, like Norman Schwarzkopf during the Gulf War. Not that you needed much strategy in the Gulf War, but he used one of Hannibal's tactics in the Gulf War. He had said, again, I couldn't tell you which tactic. I'm not a. You know. But just to give you a quick idea of how far reaching of a general military genius this guy was right. So. So he fought the Roman Empire in the second Punic War. Punic War. He wasn't around. I feel like he was in Spain with his father. I'm not going to go into detail because I don't know it. But you know, he was a kid. His father took him on campaigns, I want to say in Spain. He learned from his father. And then in the Second Punic War, also known as the Hannibalic War, which alone should get you on my list. Like, if there's a war named after you because you were such a badass, you should be on the list. So the Second Punic War, okay, I did, I did take a note on. This was 218 to 204 BC and you know, Hannibal, he took, he marched his army over the Alps and invaded Italy from, from the, you know, northern, Northern Italy. [00:57:49] Speaker B: Right. [00:57:49] Speaker A: You hear the story, you know, the, he had all the elephants and he brought them over the Alps and, you know, he kind of came down Italy. [00:57:54] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:57:55] Speaker A: So he won a ton of decisive battles. In one battle, the Battle of Tribia, 30,000 Roman soldiers died in one afternoon. 30,000 soldiers in one afternoon. And then at the battle of Cannae, 50 to 70,000 Romans died at his hand. [00:58:12] Speaker B: Oh my God. [00:58:12] Speaker A: Up to. So even being conservative historical estimates, because when they talk about casualties and wars, historical estimates are always a little over the top. Herodotus would always pat his stats. They all would. [00:58:24] Speaker B: So that's hilarious, actually. [00:58:27] Speaker A: It was always like, like the back. [00:58:28] Speaker B: Of their baseball card. [00:58:30] Speaker A: It's totally true. Right? So you'll hear things like, you know, 100,000 men died this day. And historians were like, we don't think it was that many. We think it was 50 to 70. So even being conservative, 50,000 Romans died at the battle of Cannae and at his hand. [00:58:45] Speaker B: And I gotta tell you, when you talk about numbers like that, especially back then, it's not like now. It's like, you know, if you're, you know, I mean, not, not that anyone looks for the, you know, God bless anybody doing the military shit, obviously, but it's like, you know, a bullet to the head is one thing, but it's like these guys back then, I mean, they're like, you, you're, you're sword in the right. You had, you died a slow, brutal, painful, violent death. Right? [00:59:04] Speaker A: I mean, can you imagine 70 just on one side? Like, it's, it's insane to even think. [00:59:10] Speaker B: About that smell, I'll tell you that. Like that, that bat, that battlefield, right? No, man, what Are we doing? [00:59:17] Speaker A: Yeah, clean, clean that up. The next day I'd rather be with. [00:59:20] Speaker B: Pepe La Pew in a room. What are we doing here? Holy. [00:59:24] Speaker A: That's what Rome did. Like Rome just threw bodies at you. Like Rome had so many men. Like that's how they won. A lot of times like they get out maneuver. But most of the time Rome would just. All right, let's just, let's just raise another 30,000 army and send it right back out there. That's, that's what Rome did. [00:59:39] Speaker B: Same. [00:59:40] Speaker A: But Hannibal had him on the ropes. So here's the genius thing that Rome did. So they decided to. So, so here's Hannibal with this, this army riding around Northern Italy, right? He's, he's won these battles, he's ready to invade Rome, right? But they employed a strategy, Rome employed a strategy of just keeping him at bay, not facing him in battle. That's how intimidating he was. So they didn't want to face him in battle anymore. So they just went for a stalemate. They just said, no, no, let's just keep his army at bay and let him roam around. And so he, he, he, his army was in Italy for like years and years. But they just, they wouldn't fight him because they couldn't, they knew, you know, they knew they were going up against this badass general. Now eventually they did fight him. I can't remember the Roman who, who rose up and, and did finally defeat him in battle. But it was, it was after years, you know, of this Hannibalic war which Hannibal did lose. But just the idea, right? So think about this. So when you think about the great empires of history, right, I think Rome's the first one that pops to most westerners minds, right? No, Roman Empire is like, it's, it's, it's a household name and has been since we were four years old, right? [01:00:53] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:00:54] Speaker A: And this one general with, you know, less troops in every battle and underdog in every battle, like he had that empire by the fucking balls, right? Maybe not. When they were at the absolute hype, I think they were right before it, right? And he had people scared. They thought, oh, Hannibal's coming, Hannibal's coming. Imagine. Can you imagine like, like the, the, the myth and the legend that grew around his name during that time, like would strike fear in hearts of Roman children, right? Like that to me has always been fascinating me. Where's the movie about this guy? You know what I mean? [01:01:25] Speaker B: You're right about that. [01:01:27] Speaker A: I want to see that, you know, but yeah, so I, ever since I Started learning more and more about, you know, the Punic wars and Hannibal. I got. I just. I think it's fucking fascinating. So, yeah, that's. That's my number one man right now. I want to see Hannibal. [01:01:40] Speaker B: I mean, I gotta be honest with you. When I. When I hear Hannibal, I think of George Peppard or Anthony Hopkins. What are we doing here? You know, I don't even think of this guy. You're right. Where's the movie? [01:01:49] Speaker A: You know, so I was just talking to my, you know, my. My daughter's boyfriend who lives here, and he's like, he's a history major, and we're definitely gonna have him on the pod when we do another five historical figures. But he. He heard me talking, and he wanted me to let. He want to let me know that Scipio. Scipio was the Roman general who eventually matched and defeated Hannibal. [01:02:10] Speaker B: Listen, we could have used him during this whole podcast because I'm sure we up a lot of things here, but. [01:02:14] Speaker A: No doubt about it, but we put that disclaimer out. Don't you know, this is not. This is not written in stone. You know, I'm not a historian, neither are you, but we're. We're trying to get it right. And Jacoby. Shout out to Jacoby. Thanks for letting me know. So, yeah, so. So Scipio was the. Was the Roman general who finally took down Hannibal and became a legend in his own right, really. In a lot of ways, but doesn't stop him from being number one on my list, man. Hannibal Barkin, baby, number one. [01:02:40] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, you know, I like that because I learned a little bit of something there that I didn't know, because, I mean, my number one is, to me, it probably should have been parrot sketch not included. I thought. I thought this was gonna be the one person that we had matched. But you're right. To me, it's the obvious choice. I've always been an Abraham Lincoln guy. I gotta put it out there, you know, what are we doing here? I mean, I dressed up like him, and I was in third grade following. I was obsessed. I was obsessed with him. I always have. Always have been. And ironically enough, we went to. Again, I went, my parents, to Washington, D.C. when we were kids, and we went to the Lincoln Memorial. And I love that. But I. But I did not go to Ford's Theater. And so when I went with Allison this time, when my started date, now like 2016 or 17, we went and I said, I got to go to Forest Theater. I got to check this out and have you Been there. Have you. Have you seen. [01:03:28] Speaker A: No, never. [01:03:30] Speaker B: I gotta tell you, I mean, if you're definitely into all that, it was awesome to do, because you go and you sit in the. In the actual same theater that he was in, and you see where he was, the booth that he had, the. The. And so down below that. And apparently they still do shows there. They do theater shows there. But downstairs have a museum. They have. They have the gun, they have the bullets. You know, they have. [01:03:54] Speaker A: Crazy. [01:03:55] Speaker B: You know that. And they have other things of his that are there. And then across the street, you go across the street to the house they took him to, where he died on the bed. The bed is still there. Everything is still there from, like. You know, it's fucking unbelievable that all that shit. [01:04:05] Speaker A: That's crazy. [01:04:06] Speaker B: Unbelievable. [01:04:07] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:04:07] Speaker B: You know, it's like. It's just like one of those things where it's like, you know, again, it was like that. That next big thing that, again, whether Benjamin Franklin knew it was coming or not, was that it was. That whole thing was gonna have to be dealt with. Not only just slavery, but I know there was a lot of other things involved, but the idea that the America almost split in half, like a Mac, could you imagine? You know, I mean, it did really. Right, you're right. You're right. It pretty much did. [01:04:27] Speaker A: And even not permanently, thank God, but. Yeah, no, I hear you. Like, that was like. That was a. Like what. A. What a turning point. And you're right. And you're dead. Right. Like, when it comes to, like, Lincoln and Washington. Right. Like, that's not just American history, because given the status, you know, the United States has now, you know, as a quote, unquote, whatever you want to say, superpower. Right. Like, you know, that would not have happened without Washington. [01:04:49] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:04:49] Speaker A: And a bunch of other people, obviously. But, like, now you're dead. Right. And of course, Lincoln, you know, like. Like, if I wasn't so fucking, you know, hard for older times right now, like, absolutely. Lincoln would be, like, right up there for me. [01:05:03] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, you know, what's funny is it's one of those things where, again, this is a topic me and you have never really talked about. You know, I feel like I was actually gonna ask you ahead of time, should we not put Lincoln on there? Because I thought maybe that was the one person that we would both have, but I was like, you know what? I have no fucking clue what your list is gonna be. You know, never talk about this. You know, but you're right. [01:05:22] Speaker A: Like, we. We could have parrot Sketched a couple, you know. Oh, and by the way, folks, when we say parrot sketched, there's a Monty Python special called Parrot Sketch Not Included. We use this on. On the other pod. We do. We do. [01:05:32] Speaker B: I forgot. I forgot. We do it on Star Trek. We haven't. We probably haven't mentioned it here. [01:05:35] Speaker A: Yeah, right, right. So we. We have a podcast called the Star Trek Warp top 10 podcast that you can check out if you want, but we. We do something called the Parrot Sketch Not Included, where. So basically, Monty Python took their most popular and overdone sketch, the parrot. The dead parrot sketch, and they just didn't put it on this greatest hits thing, you know, so it was called Parrot Sketch Not Included. So whenever we want to eliminate, like, an obvious, you know, person, place, thing, show, movie from our list, we. We parrot sketch. It means. All right, look, everyone knows the. Say, for example, Citizen Kane, right? Is, like, maybe considered the best movie of all time. So if we're gonna make a top five movies, maybe we parrot sketch Citizen Kane so we don't got to put it on the list and it leaves room for other, you know, more of a discussion about, you know, more of a variety of movies, you know, okay, no Godfather, no Citizen Kane, no Casablanca. Now do your top five movies. [01:06:23] Speaker B: Yeah, right, right, right. [01:06:24] Speaker A: Just sort of a more interesting side. So. So Bombers. Yes. We. We could have parrot sketched a couple. I feel like we could have parrot sketched Lincoln for sure. [01:06:31] Speaker B: Yeah. And again, it was one of those things, too, where. I know we talked about the blinking movie with Spielberg where. The same thing with the. With the Tubman. Tubman movie after. Now that I did go see. I saw the Lincoln movie, obviously, But. But I felt like it was. I had heard that there were some inconsistencies there. Like, there wasn't all on the level, you know, as far as historical accuracy. With that, I was like, why. Why would you. Again, why would you fuck around with that? I don't know why they always feel the need to do that, but again, I'm not. I don't know anything specifically. The one thing I did think of, in all honesty, was I'm gonna fuck this up. But when they were. When they. When they were voting for getting rid of slavery by. By state, and I was sitting there going. And again, not. Not remembering what New Jersey did. So we're talking from New Jersey, you know, I'm going, come on, New Jersey. Don't. Don't let me down here. You know? And then New Jersey, in the movie, I believe, said, we Want to keep slavery. And I was like. And I was like in the North. Yeah, yeah, exactly. I was like, what? Then I looked online and on online they said no, New Jersey was always against it. You know, so I'm like, what the. [01:07:35] Speaker A: You know, why would you put that Jersey bashing again? [01:07:38] Speaker B: I might, might be. Fuck. Yeah, maybe I want to. I know again, it's been a while. I haven't seen Lincoln in a while. So I want to go back and make sure that, that I might have. That I might even have that wrong. But, but from what again, from what I remember hearing of was that there was again, not as bad as the Harriet Tubman movie, but there was a few things in the movie that were kind of dicey. But, but you know, I did enjoy the movie. But. And I think that again, a lot of it, A lot of the thing with Lincoln too is the idea of him getting his life would I wonder, would we be as fascinated by him if he wasn't killed? Like, he reminds me of Benjamin Flanagan apparently. He was witty. He was a very well spoken in speech. The Gettysburg Address. I mean, I mean, I mean he would have been who he was. No, no question. But would he be as. You know. In fact, I think there's an argument for maybe have more books been written about one person than him. In fact, in fact that was one thing. In Washington, by the Forest Theater, they had a bookstore across street and they had a. The guy. Somebody in the store put this together, built a tower of books from the floor all the way up. I don't know how many stores of just books on Lincoln. It was, it was insane to see. Yeah, but, but, but it's the idea that you know, like, like again, like how many again? Mount Rushmore, the $5 bill. There's towns and cities and you know, his birthdays and other. I mean, you know who. I mean, how it doesn't get more famous than him. Right. I mean what are we doing? [01:08:58] Speaker A: I mean other than George Washington. I feel like you're neck and neck. They're the bad soup man of, of presidents of American, American historical figures. [01:09:07] Speaker B: You're right about that. [01:09:08] Speaker A: Yeah. It's like if you're saying like, like Franklin, Spider Man. Yeah, like, yeah, like, like, like top. [01:09:14] Speaker B: 10 presidents, you know, Paris Sketch. You got to get rid of those two. Right. And then, and then go, you know, like what are we doing? [01:09:19] Speaker A: Kind of do. Right. And you know what's really funny is you know, to further that joke a little bit. And Hamilton is, is, is now Iron man, you know, the, the. The guy who's there, but now because of pop culture, he's so much more popular than no Doubt Then Nobody. [01:09:30] Speaker B: Right? [01:09:30] Speaker A: So there you go. [01:09:31] Speaker B: Right? You're so right. That is hilarious. Yeah. [01:09:33] Speaker A: That's ridiculous. Yeah. No, I mean, Lincoln's Lincoln, man. Like. Like, if I was, if I was limiting this to either just American historical figures or, you know, post 1800, whatever you want to say. I mean, Lincoln would probably be number one as well, you know? Yeah. To the point where if we do do that second top five historical figures, I will parrot sketch him because, you know, not only do you have him for your number one already, but he's. He's so obviously, you know, a choice, no doubt. [01:09:59] Speaker B: And I feel like I want to, you know, next time, if we do the list too, I want to try. I'll try to be a little less of a homer here and, you know, branch outside the USA here, you know, See, that's what's. That. [01:10:10] Speaker A: That's what's good. So I kind of like, you know, so, like, I mean, I like that. Like, you know, that's, that's, that's where you're at. You know what I mean? So why not? That's your top five. It don't matter, you know, how many, like, episodes I picked to put on these lists and on the Star Trek pod. And people, you know, they must be like, are you kidding me with this? This guy, you know, you're out of control. But you know what? It's. It's. It's a personal, you know, it's all, it's all. It's all personal preference and, you know, what your taste is and what you're into. And that's kind of why we have these conversations. [01:10:37] Speaker B: And I gotta say, you know, again, going back to the. The idea of. I like the idea that there are so. Some photographs of him. [01:10:45] Speaker A: It's. [01:10:45] Speaker B: It's so interesting to see his actual face. Like, I think that's an interesting thing. And like, you know, how tall he was. There's so many almost mythological things there. With the tall top hat, the beard, you know, like, it was always Honest Abe, they call him. Like, how much of this shit do we really know? You know? And it's like. [01:10:59] Speaker A: Right. [01:11:00] Speaker B: And I gotta say, there was a great book that, you know, I don't know. I don't know where you're falling, this guy, because I know he's a, you know, he's a topical guy, you know, a conflicting guy as it is, but Bill O'Reilly had a series of books called Killing this person, whatever it is. Killing Lincoln, Killing Kennedy. I read the Killing Lincoln one and they did a TV kind of movie documentary on it narrated by Tom Hanks and that the book and that were both fascinating to read. Like another thing too was. I didn't realize when I was a kid, you know, I didn't remember learning this. I was an adult. But the idea they were that they, you know, John Wicks Booth was going to. There was a whole thing to kill three people at the same time. [01:11:39] Speaker A: Really? [01:11:39] Speaker B: You know, like. Yeah. Oh my God. You gotta. We gotta. You gotta watch this thing. You got to check this out. I know. That's what I'm saying. I don't know. Maybe we didn't learn about this in school because we. I don't know if we would have picked up on the idea of this. But they were gonna go. They. They tried to kill him. He had a plan with two other guys to kill the vice president and God, I'm gonna fuck this up. Someone. Someone's losing the. Pulling their hair out listening to this. But a lot of people. It was like the treasurer or the secretary, whatever. The third. I don't know if it was the third in command, but it was somebody third and chain. [01:12:09] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:12:10] Speaker B: So from what my memory serves me is that the guy that was go to. Going to go kill the vice president chickened out and didn't do it. Didn't do shit. [01:12:17] Speaker A: Huh. [01:12:17] Speaker B: The guy that was gonna go kill the other the. Again, I gotta look to look at the guys. [01:12:22] Speaker A: Secretary of State, some shit, something like that. [01:12:25] Speaker B: He broke in the house and he wound up getting in a fight with the butler or something like. He wound up getting to the guy in his bed and stabbing him many, many times and getting out. But the guy survived all the stabbings. [01:12:36] Speaker A: Holy shit. Really? [01:12:37] Speaker B: Yeah. And then the. The three guys eventually, when they caught Wilkes Booth and they wound up catching the other guy that, that tried to. That tried to save this guy. They also caught the guy to chicken out. They. They hung them all. They hung all fucking three of them for. Yeah. I never. I'm telling you, I'm telling you, when you read this stuff, it's fucking unbelievable to read about. It's crazy. It's like another thing too was Ulysses S. Grant, who's my bro, I think my brother. If he did this list, that would probably his be maybe his number one. He was always, always into Ulysses S. Grant. He was supposed to be in the booth with Lincoln at the show. I don't know if it was his Wife. There was something where. I don't know if it was him or his wife that didn't. I don't know if they didn't want to go or they had something else to do to some kind of conflicting thing. So they weren't there because he was on the list to be killed, but he wasn't going to be there, so he left. So then they. I'm telling you, all that kind of stuff is like really, really interesting. Anyway, I'm on a tangent here, but. [01:13:31] Speaker A: Nah, that's. He's supposed to. [01:13:33] Speaker B: It's. It's crazy, man. [01:13:35] Speaker A: I gotta check that out. What was it called? The Time Hanks thing? [01:13:39] Speaker B: It was called Killing Lincoln. [01:13:40] Speaker A: Killing Lincoln. Oh, okay. And again, it was based on the O'Reilly book, you're saying. [01:13:45] Speaker B: Yes, and he's done a few of those. He also did one on again, Killing Kennedy. That they actually got someone to play John Patton Oswald. Patton Oswald? No. Who's the kid from the comic? [01:13:59] Speaker A: No, that's Pat. [01:14:01] Speaker B: Lee Harvey Oswald. [01:14:02] Speaker A: Lee Harvey Oswald. [01:14:05] Speaker B: I forget who the actor. You would know the name. But, but they, they filmed that more like a movie than the Lincoln one. But, but, but he has all these books out. Killing, Jesus. Killing. You know, he has a whole series of these. You might even have some of your guys on there that maybe Killing Caesar. I, I don't know all of them. But, but the Lincoln. If you, if you could check the Lincoln thing out. That, that was, that was phenomenal. Really? Really? [01:14:24] Speaker A: Definitely. Well, reminds me of a book I read called Assassination Vacation. [01:14:29] Speaker B: I think you gave it to me. I was reading them like halfway through it. It. I have it on my nightstand. Yes. [01:14:33] Speaker A: So there's not a lot about. So it's actually focuses on the two lesser known assassinations. [01:14:38] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:14:38] Speaker A: Presidents, you know, Garfield and McKinley. [01:14:41] Speaker B: But the Garfield one I read. I think I'm on the McKinley one. Yeah. [01:14:44] Speaker A: Oh, cool. Yeah. Yeah. [01:14:46] Speaker B: Yes, yes. [01:14:46] Speaker A: But Charles Guiteau and you know, Leon Chogash, who, who, you know, the lesser. Again, the lesser known assassins than. Yeah, you know, than John Wilkes Booth. Right. And, uh, Lee Harvey Oswald. So. But I do. They do mention some cool stuff about Lincoln and Oswald in there as well, though. They make, they make some. They sort of use it as the benchmark to, to draw comparisons from what I remember anyway, about the lesser known assassinations to, you know, to the famous ones. So you learn a bit about Booth and Lincoln as well on that as well as Guiteau and Cholgash. [01:15:17] Speaker B: Because I feel like that was always one of those questions like how Many presidents have been assassinated, and you're always like, you know. You know, the two. And then it's like, there's got to be someone else in there. And that's like reading like, oh, those two were. You know. [01:15:26] Speaker A: Yeah, there's four, right? Yeah, there's the. Garfield and McKinley were also assassinated. And note two. I'm sorry. [01:15:33] Speaker B: No, I know Ronald Reagan was shot. That was always one thing. I'm like, oh, you know, but. [01:15:36] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, he was shot. Yeah. But, yeah, didn't get the job done. Sarah Vowell, the. The author who wrote that. I think I told you. She's. She's the voice of Violet in the Incredibles movies. [01:15:49] Speaker B: Yeah, you did tell me that. [01:15:50] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I love her sense of humor. It's. It's pretty, you know, pretty. [01:15:55] Speaker B: Definitely. [01:15:55] Speaker A: Pretty dry. Pretty witty, you know, pretty sarcastic. She's. It's very funny. A lot. A lot of good laughs in that book. [01:16:00] Speaker B: It's a good book. [01:16:01] Speaker A: Check it out if you get a chance. But, yeah, no, so that's. That's a great pick, man. You gotta. Lincoln number one. Who could argue? [01:16:07] Speaker B: You know, what are we doing here? You know, that's all. That's all I got for you, you know, but, yeah, I mean, hey, listen, interesting topic, interesting list. And, yeah, you know, we'll have to get some guests on here. [01:16:17] Speaker A: We'll get. [01:16:18] Speaker B: Get Jacoby on here. You know, we'll see what's going on. [01:16:21] Speaker A: Yeah, see what's going on. I don't know what we're doing next, but I'm sure it'll be, you know, diverse. We'll zig and zag again, and we'll bring you folks something. Something good. [01:16:30] Speaker B: I remember one of the last times we talked, I tried to make a list of. Of different topics. So we'll. We'll go through that. [01:16:36] Speaker A: We'll. [01:16:36] Speaker B: We'll. We'll come up with a banger here. [01:16:38] Speaker A: No doubt. No doubt. Be fun. [01:16:41] Speaker B: But. Yeah, all right, listen, it's been fun. That's about all I got, Phil. Anything else? [01:16:45] Speaker A: No, that's it, man. Look, history's awesome. Fucking. You know, I've been trying to get my daughter into it for, you know, 20 years, you know, so far, no luck, but. But we'll see. At some point, maybe she'll get it. She likes American history like you do, but I'm. I'm constantly trying to get her involved in, you know, some older stuff. You know, for me, the older you go, the more fascinating it is. It is. You know, I think I Think, you know, learning and knowing about history, obviously on a big scale, it can help you. But even just personally, like, I feel like, you know, knowing what came before will really help you, you know, navigate, navigate, you know, your future. Not just in like, you know, from, from a nation, national standpoint, but, you know, it's just, it's a good mindset to have, you know, believe it or not, I swear to God, it's actually sort of leveled me off a little bit with certain, certain topics. Right. Like if, you know, whereas I used to get really upset at certain things and maybe I'm kind of a little, a little more mellow about it, you know, because I, I put it in such a grand perspective, you know, that it's easier to sort of focus on what's important. You know what I mean? When, when you have a more, a broader perspective on what's happened before again, blah, blah. That's all just preachy shit. I'm just saying. I love history. I, I like learning about it. I'm gonna keep, keep learning about it. History is, history is the shit, yo. [01:17:58] Speaker B: Yeah, no, listen, I couldn't have said it better myself. You know, I, I, I know that I don't know about history. That's all I know, but I, but I do like to learn about it. So, yeah, I mean, you know, we'll see, we'll see what happens. [01:18:09] Speaker A: Happens. All right, man. Yeah, that was fun. Thanks for listening, everybody. [01:18:14] Speaker B: Yes, thank you for listening. And hopefully we didn't make you go nuts too much here with our information, but, you know, that was our list. Hopefully we, we would like to know yours at some point. God bless. That's all I got. [01:18:24] Speaker A: You know what? Six semper tyrannis. Peace. [01:18:29] Speaker B: What he said.