TV Dramas

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign. Here we go again. Men of a Certain Five coming at you. How are you? Thanks for joining us. I am Brian Parks and I am joined with my co host, Phil Rizzo. Phil, how the hell are you? [00:00:22] Speaker B: I'm good, man. I'm doing good. Bomber, what's happening? This is. This is fun. We're doing it again. I love it. [00:00:28] Speaker A: Yeah, you know, I like. We kind of bounced around a little bit. We did a little baseball last time out. Who knew that was coming? And now we're gonna get back into some television we haven't done in a while. How about that? [00:00:37] Speaker B: It's been a while. We did laugh track sitcoms. That's the only television pod we've done so far. So it made sense to go back to tv. I like that. And we got a good topic tonight. [00:00:45] Speaker A: We do. You know, and it's funny. I feel like as long as we, you know, I. I do like to bounce around, but I do feel like for us, I mean, sports is always going to be in the wheelhouse, but definitely entertainment's always going to be something that we can get involved in. So what are we doing here? I mean, you know, here we are. [00:01:00] Speaker B: Here we are. Sorry, I'm laughing at that. That's one drink. [00:01:05] Speaker A: Oh. What? What? I just kind of realized. I [00:01:08] Speaker B: know, I know. [00:01:09] Speaker A: I actually didn't even realize I said that. That's [00:01:11] Speaker B: awesome. [00:01:12] Speaker A: I mean, what do we get? 100, you know? Well, that's you. That's you. Do [00:01:16] Speaker B: they drink if you say it or just me? [00:01:19] Speaker A: Well, we'll have to find out. Yeah. So we actually. Since we last recorded. There we are actually, I'm trying to remember now. Did we do the baseball one after Drew's wedding or before? I'm trying to remember now. [00:01:30] Speaker B: I think we [00:01:31] Speaker A: recorded that, but it came out after. Yeah, [00:01:33] Speaker B: I think so. Recorded it before, but we published it afterwards. Yep. [00:01:37] Speaker A: So we got it. We were talking before we got on here. We got to do some shout outs here. We have to definitely talk about, well, not only John and Steph, because we know that they enjoy listening and we had a nice conversation with them there. But, you know, now you have to help me out with the names here because I am brutal. I've only met him. Well, I met their one son there. That. That guy was the best. He's into the horror films and everything. Oh, [00:01:54] Speaker B: Brennan. Yeah, shout out to Brennan. Yeah, my horror guy. [00:01:58] Speaker A: He was awesome. Talking to us about the. The pot. We got to get him on. I'm talking about some horror films. Oh, [00:02:02] Speaker B: 100%. Yeah. Hey, if he's willing, I'm willing. Yeah. Brennan, Hayden and Landon, the. The Adams boys. God bless him. I am 100% behind them listening to this pod. [00:02:13] Speaker A: Well, why. Why would you not be? What are we doing here, really? You know, No, I. [00:02:18] Speaker B: We should explain the drinking game real quick. [00:02:21] Speaker A: Yeah, they're gonna all get rocked. [00:02:23] Speaker B: I mean, I don't. They're actually drinking, but I know they brought it up as a fun thing. So apparently, folks, we got some friends. And, you know, between, you know, my friends John and Steph and their three kids, we just talked about, every time that bomber says, what are we doing here? They take a drink. Every time I say 100, they take a drink. So let's get them fucked up today. What do you think? [00:02:42] Speaker A: Well, why not? You know, if we're gonna go down, we're taking them with us. How about that [00:02:47] Speaker B: 100? That's the last one, I promise. All right. [00:02:50] Speaker A: And I gotta say, you know, I know one of their. They were talking about, one of their sons is into the theater. Doing theater. Yeah, [00:02:56] Speaker B: Landon. Yeah, [00:02:57] Speaker A: Landon. Well, let's. I want to wish good luck to landing because that sounds exciting and I hope. Hope things go well there. You know, we're rooting for you here, you know. [00:03:03] Speaker B: Awesome. Totally. [00:03:05] Speaker A: And also, I know you mentioned Nash last time out, but I got to say, had a nice conversation with Nash. He was very kind about the pod, and I just wanted to say thank you to him. And hopefully we don't. We don't bore him with all the thank yous here. And they. And they enjoy the pod today. What do you think? [00:03:16] Speaker B: Hey, there you go. Hopefully they will. I think it's a good topic. I think we're good to go. Before we get into our topic, though, you can hit us up on TikTok Instagram threads at men of a certain five. That's M E N O F A C E R T A I N 5. The number 5. That's confusing as. Let's make it more confusing. You can email us at men of a certain five. That's f I v e gmail dot com. Spell it all out. F I v e gmail dotcom. Shoot us an email, let us know what's going on out there. [00:03:47] Speaker A: Now. So today we're gonna get into it with something interesting here. We're going top five television dramas. Is that right? That's what [00:03:53] Speaker B: we're doing. Yeah. Top five TV dramas. And I know we have a few caveats that we're gonna talk about, right? [00:04:01] Speaker A: Yes, I think so. Can you Explain that because I'm trying to make sure that I, I think I fell in the right thing here with this. But let's, let's get it out there. Go ahead. [00:04:09] Speaker B: Well, first of all, as you know, there's no strict rules. If you want to make whatever you're five, you make whatever you're five. For me personally, I've removed sci fi, not fantasy. I removed science fiction mainly because for me it would take up my whole five. So between the multiple Star Trek shows I watch Battlestar Galactica, the X Files, like I wouldn't have any room for anything else. So I, I want to make that a separate list. So I took Sci Fi out. I did leave in everything else though, any kind of one hour drama, including fantasy. I left it in there because I know there's gonna be one that's on both of our lists that I know we wanted to talk about. So I kept it in there for me. [00:04:46] Speaker A: I got to tell you right now, I would be shocked if we don't have four shows the same on this list. [00:04:54] Speaker B: We're not, we're not going to have four the same. No way. [00:04:56] Speaker A: Well, I think I'm going to be honest with you right now. I say two Def. We definitely have. Well, two is guaranteed to me. There's a third one I'm pretty sure is on your list, I'm not sure. And there's a fourth one that you know again. But I will say this, here's my thing. I'm gonna, I'm gonna announce before I get involved this, I gotta be honest. Ya, I was shocked at how little TV drama I have seen in my life. Gotta be honest with you, you know, I don't know if it was just because I was very sitcom heavy or. I don't know how to describe it. Plus I watch a lot of the old time shit as we all know here. But, but I, you know, I have missed out on endless amounts of shows. Like I know you said the X Files, which were not counting anyway, but like I said, I never saw the Wire, I've never seen West Wings. Not really my thing. I'm not a hospital drama guy, so I'm not none of your er. I don't want to spend time in the fucking hospital, so I don't. The shows are great. I hear Noah Wiley's great on the show. He's doing the last fucking. I hate going to the doctor as it is, so I'm not watching it on tv. Fuck that. It ain't happening. So you know, all those shows are Gone. And also, you know, even I'm trying to think of, like, you know, even the Law and Orders and all that. I haven't really watched a lot of that either, but, you know, so I feel like I've missed a lot of the. And there's some other bigger shows I've missed besides the Wire and some of those other ones. But. So my field was very limited, and I know your TV is very, very broad. I know you're very, very versed in this. So I. Maybe I should go back and say. Maybe I'll say three, then I'll take your four back. I think we should have three the same. But you know what? We'll see what happens. Go ahead. [00:06:24] Speaker B: I mean, we. Minimum of the maximum of three now, based on that little diatribe of yours, just so you know. [00:06:31] Speaker A: Okay, okay. In [00:06:32] Speaker B: other words, two of the ones you just mentioned are on my list. So the maximum we'll have together is three now, definitely. [00:06:37] Speaker A: Oh, really? So they. I. I know West Wing is. I know you're a big West Wing guy, and I know the Wire. Everybody I talk to says, the best show ever made. [00:06:45] Speaker B: Well, there you go. So how could we have four? You know what I mean? [00:06:47] Speaker A: And it's. And it's one of those things that. Well, you know what it is? The reason why is because the. There's. There's. Because in my mind, you're leaving two shows out that. I can't believe you like those shows better. But we'll get into it. That's what makes it fun. Let's [00:07:02] Speaker B: get into it. Yeah, I'm very curious. My number five was. I know we're not jumping in. I'm saying you'd say my number. This was one of the hardest fives I've ever. The four fell into place quickly. [00:07:11] Speaker A: My top three were locked. And then I had trouble the last two, to be quite honest with you. But you know, what we got there? What can we do? You know, It's a battle. [00:07:18] Speaker B: What can we do? Yeah, fuck it. Let's talk about. This is a fun topic, man. So I definitely went first last time. [00:07:26] Speaker A: Okay. I was gonna say, you're always good at this. I can never. For some reason, I can never. [00:07:29] Speaker B: Yeah, you brought it home last time, so I'll bring it home this time. So if you're ready, man, we're doing top five TV dramas, and you could hit me with your number five. If you're ready, baby. [00:07:40] Speaker A: I'm ready. And I. I'll tell you this right now. I know that if anybody, whoever the hell is. Listening to this podcast is probably going to drive right off the road when I say number five here. But I. It should be. You know what it is. There's just shows that hit you and the shows that don't. This is my own world of television here, so it's like my own personal taste. So my number five is going to be the Sopranos. [00:08:02] Speaker B: Okay. [00:08:03] Speaker A: Now, I know that this is a big show for. And obviously what it has meant to television history and all that. Yes, yes, yes. You know, but, you know, I rewatched it with Allison because she had never seen the show. So I went back. So I've seen it now twice, all the way through. And I think it has. Obviously, it has moments that are unbelievable. We all know that. And. And I gotta tell you, it. There were parts watching the second time through that made me fucking roll. Especially when he's yelling at his kids. I. At the son. I fucking love that, right? And. But, you know, I guess overall, I felt like, you know what I gotta say, all the shows I have on the list, they all have these points where I'm like, you know, it's. You know, at the end of the day, they do a hell of a job with running these shows for as long as they do, to be honest, you know, because it's hard to have a banger show in every fucking. You know what I mean? Like. Yeah, because I feel dips to me. This show dipped a little bit. It wasn't, you know, a powerhouse all the way through. I found myself not being into the therapy sessions too much after a while. But. But I will say that, you know, the. When this show hits, I mean, the surprises are unbelievable. The acting is phenomenal. I mean, you know, what else can we do? Plus the joy of it, too, is being from North Jersey, you know. You know, they. I recognize most of the places that they. That they shoot in, you know, being up here. So, you know, it's. But, you know, I'm sure we're gonna talk about this later on, but. So I will just say that I think that I had to put this on here because I do enjoy the show and it's such a big part of television history. I think it deserves to be on the list. So I was. I was gonna put this four, to be honest with you, but this one, I think there's a place I'd rather live a little bit more than this. So I put it for. And I'd left this at 5. That's. That's what I got for you. What do you think? [00:09:41] Speaker B: I think you're spot on because my number five is the Sopranos as well. [00:09:47] Speaker A: No, no. All right, here we go. So listen, right out of the gate, and [00:09:51] Speaker B: look, I mean, the only reason it made 5, 2. And I'll be honest, the Sopranos is a phenomenal show, okay? Like, it's a great drama. We wouldn't have my top three if the Sopranos didn't happen. Like, we would not. [00:10:04] Speaker A: No doubt. [00:10:05] Speaker B: It ushered in just a completely new golden age of television. It really did. That's just. You know, I'm not even a fan of that phrase, but it's kind of fucking true, right? Like, this was 1999. Like, this is, you know, like they were still making 90s shows, if you kind of know what I mean by that. You know what I mean? Like, [00:10:24] Speaker A: yeah, [00:10:24] Speaker B: this was. This was way ahead of its time. So much so that I think it kind of fell into a couple traps. Like, it kind of didn't. Didn't have anything to base it on. Like, this was one of the first shows, I remember, that had limited episodes. This was one of the first shows that had like 12, 13 episodes a season, right? This was one of the first shows that took longer than a year off in between seasons. This was the first genuine mainstream anti hero, you know, I mean, it wasn't the first one, but he was the biggest. One of the most popular. Tony Soprano is one of the most complex characters ever written. Like, he really is. Why is it only number five? So upon watching it again, for this. So I've seen the first three seasons maybe four or five times. You know, when it first came out, I bought the DVDs and I watched them over and over because they were just so much fun. Like you said, they're funny. And every episode is well written, even if the plot goes nowhere. Like, the overall season plot that each individual episode is so well written. It's so well acted. It's, you know. And like you said, who. We live in Jersey, right? Especially you. You're in North Jersey. You love hearing things like, what am I going to do? Sell patio furniture on Route 1? Like, you hear that and you're like, it's awesome. You know what I mean? Like, you just. You know exactly what they're talking about it. In some ways, it put New Jersey on the map from a television standpoint, right? Like, you know, nothing. Like. Like, what do you think of when you think of TV in New Jersey? Like, you think of the Sopranos. Like, it kind of put Jersey on the map as far as that goes. I mean, to the point where at your old apartment, you and I walked for five minutes and we went to the place where they shot the final scene. Right, that ice cream place. [00:11:59] Speaker A: That's right. Yeah. So it's [00:12:01] Speaker B: tons of fun right [00:12:02] Speaker A: down the road. [00:12:02] Speaker B: Here's. Here's some of the problems. Here's some of the reasons it's number five for me. Upon multiple. Upon a rewatch of the whole show, some of the characters became very annoying to me. Tony was less sympathetic and more of just a. I mean, just an asshole really. Like, you know, just. Just a child in his brain. And he kind couldn't. Couldn't reconcile. I mean, I. I know he was written like that kind of, you know, I mean, like, he's supposed to be this. This sort of simpleton and yet not. He's supposed to be this guy who can't control his impulses and. But, you know, he kind of wants to blah, blah, blah. So he became really annoy. Paulie, Christopher. They all became really annoying. And not just annoying on the surface, but, like, their motives became annoying to me. Like, you know, when you watch characters over and over make decisions that will continually put them down the wrong path, even though they purport to not want to be going on that path, it's. It gets annoying. [00:12:57] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:12:57] Speaker B: Another reason why the show is. Again, this is number five. I'm not. I don't want to shit on it, but I want to explain why it's five and why it almost wasn't even on the list for me. Another big reason is because, again, this is partially because they didn't know what this was yet. Like, TV wasn't making entertainment like this yet. So the first season happens and, you know, I can't remember what happened at the end of the first season. Doesn't matter. At the end of the second season, Big Pussy dies. At the end of the third season, Jackie Jr dies. Sorry for spoilers if you haven't seen this Bronx. But so. So then it became who's gonna die at the end of season four? And even though that wasn't their intention, that's what we were all asking ourselves non stop. Oh my go. Is Anthony Jr. Fainting? Is he gonna go down the same path as his father? Why is what's gonna happen with. With Furio and Carmela like nothing. Like, none of those story lines kind of came to fruition right after the Pinelands episode. You realize they didn't give a. About answering questions. It wasn't about that. That's okay. You can do that with a TV show. But the problem is, at that point, we were already hooked on knowing what's going to happen to the characters, knowing. Knowing where these storylines are going. David Chase, the writers, they did a phenomenal job. But at the same time, they didn't give people what they wanted after they told them what they wanted, if that makes any sense. [00:14:20] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:14:21] Speaker B: Show kind of went off the rails, if you asked me, after season four, and I think seasons five and six, or six, Part two, which, you know you for setting that precedent, because a lot of TV shows do that now. [00:14:32] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:14:33] Speaker B: Lost, I could think of was the first show that I can remember that did that winter break off. Anyway, look, I'm on. I'm telling you why it's not higher and why it almost didn't make my list. But the fact of the matter is, the Sopranos was ahead of its time. It did something that no other show had done at that point. The entire country was talking about it. You know, you couldn't go anywhere without talking about the Sopranos. It was. It was so popular. That final episode in that final moments. Fucking stupid. But, I mean, whatever. It is what it is. Anyway. That's. That's my number five. [00:15:10] Speaker A: I was gonna ask you, you know, I. I agree with everything you're saying from the standpoint, especially from what it did, what I. What I did to television. But, you know, the only thing I was gonna ask you was. I know, the only show I could think of because I was like, is this the one that changed everything? And it is. But I never watched the show that I remember HBO had before this called Oz. Did you ever watch that show? [00:15:29] Speaker B: Yeah, I've seen some episodes. It's definitely, Definitely new, edgy, different, but it's way more. It's way too experimental, I think, to be considered for a list like this, to be honest. [00:15:40] Speaker A: Gotcha. Gotcha. Because I was gonna say what. One thing that you brought up that I thought was interesting, like you said about the way the Sopranos change television, too, was that, you know, I don't remember watching television growing up in, like, the 80s or 90s where. And again, I kind of miss this with television sometimes, where it's like you could miss three or four episodes and you could jump in and it would be like, you know. And again, I'm more thinking, like, action shows. I grew up with, like the A Team or the Dukes of Hazard, shit like that, of serious drama shows. I didn't. Again, I didn't really watch a lot of those as a young person, but I do. There was a part of that that I did kind of like, was like, if I missed one or two. Okay, you know, fine, whatever, you know. But now the way television is, you have to kind of watch it all sequentially or you're fucked up, you know, for the most part. You know what I'm saying? No, [00:16:25] Speaker B: it's [00:16:25] Speaker A: true. I can't think of it. I can't think of a drama you can watch now that you can miss a few episodes, you know what I'm saying? That's [00:16:30] Speaker B: true. I mean, that's not a procedural. Right. That's not like House or Law and Order or, you know, Bones. [00:16:36] Speaker A: Exactly. [00:16:36] Speaker B: Not that those shows are bad. Like, I like Bones and I like, you know, I liked House, but like. Yeah, it's not the same thing. And I will say this too, folks. Like, I. I didn't see. I didn't start watching serious dramas until the mid to the late 90s, so I. I didn't see Hill Street Blues. I didn't see Saint Elsewhere. I didn't see a lot of these. These shows that are considered great dramas that were kind of before my time. So caveat there. Like, I, you know, I didn't see those shows. I've heard they're very good. One other show. And like you said, I've seen a lot of tv. There's very few serious dramas that I haven't at least seen a couple seasons of. But there's one show I never even touched, which I know a lot of people talk about in. The Shield is a show I've never seen. [00:17:19] Speaker A: That's the Michael Chickless. [00:17:20] Speaker B: Yeah. And he was also considered one of the first, like, real anti heroes of television, you know, Vic Mackie. [00:17:26] Speaker A: Oh, wow. [00:17:26] Speaker B: Yeah. So, you know, I've never seen that show. So, I mean. And that. That should be in consideration based on everything I know about the show for a list like this. But I've never seen it, so I did not consider the Shield. I have like. I have like eight honorable mentions for later, but, like, that wasn't one of them. So [00:17:42] Speaker A: Michael Chick was played Curly, in a TV made for TV movie. And he's a big Three Stooges fan. So I have no. I have like, Michael Chicken. [00:17:51] Speaker B: I get it. I'm gonna watch the Shield at some point. It's still on my list. It's one of those few that slipped through the cracks in the last 25 years that I haven't seen. [00:17:59] Speaker A: Totally forgot to mention that there was one episode of Sopranos where Edie Falco's Having lunch with. I don't know if it was, like, someone from the school there. David Straight Heron, I believe was. It was David Straight Heron on the show. He was. Yeah. They were having lunch in the restaurant that I used to work at, so I did a little extra work on the episode. I was in the background. I don't think you could see me at all. Oh, that's. I think you told [00:18:17] Speaker B: me this. That's hilarious. That's awesome. [00:18:19] Speaker A: You know what? It is, Because I didn't. I didn't put in to do extra work. I did a lot of extra work, especially at that time, but I didn't. I just happened to be at the job the day they were shooting, so they were like, oh, if you want to be in the background. Oh, yeah, okay. You know, so I didn't really get placed anywhere. I was, like, in the background. But it was fun. It was fun to be experienced. You know, got the Meat e Falco, but. But. But they were the only two there that, you know. But it's funny. Like, they shot at that bar that I hung out, hung out with a lot up here called Tyrannies, which is getting a lot of fanduel commercials now here. And it's funny. You know, that's the thing again, especially watching it second time through, I recognize so much more. So many more places and everything, but. And, you know, it does have this thing with New Jersey now. You know, like, if you're like, we've traveled, me and Allison, people like, you know, the only thing they know about New Jersey is Jersey Shore and the Sopranos. Those are the things that people. I get it. People know. New Jersey for now. One [00:19:02] Speaker B: good, one bad. And real quick, [00:19:05] Speaker A: both bad in a way. But, you know, everyone thinks we're gangsters now. It's like, what are we talking about? [00:19:09] Speaker B: It also gave every Italian kid, you know, in our lives during that time to feel like they were mobsters. It was so annoying sometimes. Yeah, I'm Italian, but, like, knock it off. Like, you know, we're all not mobbed up. It's a TV show. But he. He was absolutely incredible. Like, he seriously is one of the best acting performances of all time, in my opinion. What can I think of his name? Help me out. [00:19:34] Speaker A: Gandaffini. [00:19:35] Speaker B: James Gandolfini. Thank you. Rest in peace. I mean, a lot of these actors have passed on now, right? It's pretty crazy. [00:19:42] Speaker A: It is. Yeah. [00:19:43] Speaker B: But, you know, he. I mean, he's. He's just phenomenal. Like, the character. I don't like the character. It's no doubt. My God, he's. He put on a. A clinic of acting for. For, you know, six seasons. Pretty impressive. [00:19:53] Speaker A: No doubt. Hard to argue that. [00:19:56] Speaker B: All right, so we had the same. There's your one. Let's see if we. See if we get to three. So what's your, what's your number four there, kiddo? [00:20:03] Speaker A: I know this is not going to be on your list, but I had to put it on mine just because it's, you know, I don't think this is a great show. I, I was. It was a good show, but I, I think it could have been great, but I think got a little wilder. I'm gonna put Boardwalk Empire at number four. [00:20:17] Speaker B: Nice. Come on. [00:20:18] Speaker A: Only because it's, you know what? It's. It's my favorite, you know, era of, of, you know, the world, I guess. Like, to me, the Roaring twenties, to me is just an exciting time period. If people always like, oh, if you could live at any time. If I had to pick another time to live in, it would probably be that time. It's my music. It's my, you know, the movie, the movies, the whole thing. I, I love the whole, the whole idea of the whole thing. Now, don't get me wrong, I would not want to be machine gunned down in an alley or something, but, you know, what are we doing? That's how [00:20:44] Speaker B: everybody's life ended in the 20s. [00:20:47] Speaker A: No, I think that it hit certain peaks, the show, and. And then I think it kind of went off the rails, too. I think it got a little, you know, maybe a little boring after a while. And the funny thing is, it's hard. I always had a hard time picturing not, not the Steve Buscemi couldn't kick my ass because anybody could. But I had a hard time picturing him as a tough guy. I feel like. I always felt like it should have been someone else. Not. I mean, he's a phenomenal actor. We know that. Yeah. But I just feel like we could have put someone else there that, you know, like, if he walks into the. He's not scaring the shit out of anybody, in my opinion. But. But other than that, I think the show was very, very good. It had a lot. I guess it had a lot of good moments, and I had to get a lot of great characters. And I know they had the one young actor that caused a lot of trouble they might have, getting rid of their. [00:21:34] Speaker B: Michael Pitt. I [00:21:35] Speaker A: forget his name. Michael Pitt. Yeah. [00:21:37] Speaker B: He was my favorite character in the first season. [00:21:40] Speaker A: Yeah, I liked him a lot. And then, you know, I don't know, but there's a few. Like, I like the guy that played Al Capone. He was a great. He still beats him around forever. Yeah, [00:21:47] Speaker B: he's. He's in a lot of British. I can't remember what his name is in real life, but he's great. He's [00:21:51] Speaker A: in a lot of [00:21:52] Speaker B: the. He's in a lot of Guy Ritchie movies. [00:21:56] Speaker A: Right, exactly. Snatch it. I mean. Yeah, yeah. And. And that one dude that he kind of got his. I forget, he got his face shot off and he's like. He has like the. He has like a half a face and he had a weird voice. That. That dude was a great character too. I don't know if you remember what I'm talking about. [00:22:12] Speaker B: The Fed. Not Michael Shannon, right? [00:22:17] Speaker A: No, no, he was great too. Yeah, he's good. [00:22:21] Speaker B: I vaguely know who you're talking about, but. But yeah, I mean, I saw the first season and I'm with you. I just never watched more than that. I don't know why. [00:22:29] Speaker A: Oh, interesting. Yeah, I watched the whole thing, but. But it was. Again, I kind of, you know, it was kind of like, eh. After a while. Also a fun thing for me was that I had a friend of mine that I was in college, a very nice guy named Mark who did. Mark Donovan. Actually got a few episodes on the Boardwalk Empire. Believe it. [00:22:44] Speaker B: Oh, nice. [00:22:45] Speaker A: He had some. He had some scenes with the Hell's the guy's name? Bobby Carnival, who came on like season three or four. Okay. So that was exciting for us at the time. So that was always a cool thing. Yeah. But anyway, I do feel like the, you know, they had a lot of great actors, a lot of great characters, and again, it's my. My wheelhouse with all of this stuff, but I do feel like it wasn't the strongest ending or the last season. Actually, the other guy that's on the show is the guy who plays Daredevil. I forget his name. He comes on later on in the show. Yeah. [00:23:12] Speaker B: Charlie Cox. Yeah, I knew he was on there. [00:23:14] Speaker A: Cox. [00:23:14] Speaker B: You're leaving out my boy Michael K. Williams too, man. Love him. [00:23:17] Speaker A: Oh, Michael K. Williams. That's another guy who's on how many shows too? Yeah, right. Or [00:23:21] Speaker B: he's phenomenal. He's on Communities, on the Wire. He's great. [00:23:24] Speaker A: Right, right, right, right. But it was. It was good and I liked it, so. And again, I was kind of a toss up between this and Sopranos, and I feel like in the day I would rather watch this than the Sopranos. Because it's. It's my error. It's gangsters, and I'd rather watch the gangsters back then, I guess, than here. I don't know if that makes any sense, but that's all I got. [00:23:43] Speaker B: It does make sense. Makes sense to me. Yeah. I also, like. I want to say Gretchen Mole. Was she in the first season as well? Like Michael Pitts, like mother or stepmother or something? [00:23:53] Speaker A: That sounds familiar, But I'm not 100 on that, actually. [00:23:56] Speaker B: She was good, too. We enjoyed it. Angel and I watched the first season, and for some reason, we just didn't continue. But I remember we liked it. It was weird, but, [00:24:03] Speaker A: yeah, there [00:24:04] Speaker B: you go. So, yeah, so I did see one season of that. Obviously, I didn't consider it because I didn't watch all five seasons, but [00:24:09] Speaker A: it's [00:24:09] Speaker B: one of those shows I said, maybe I'll return to someday. I'll check it out, you know, who knows? [00:24:13] Speaker A: Wow. Awesome. [00:24:15] Speaker B: Indeed. [00:24:15] Speaker A: So that means we're going to. We're going to your number four here. My [00:24:18] Speaker B: number four. You're not gonna like this. [00:24:21] Speaker A: Here we go. [00:24:21] Speaker B: So my number four is Game of Thrones. [00:24:26] Speaker A: Why would I not like it? I knew was gonna be on your list because [00:24:29] Speaker B: I thought maybe you would want it to be higher. [00:24:33] Speaker A: Listen, everybody has their opinion on this. You know, I want to hear you talk about it, but I. The fact that you have it on there, I knew was gonna be there. So go ahead. [00:24:41] Speaker B: I mean, I had to have it on there, man. If this show had just fucking stuck the landing, man, this would probably be number one. Like, honestly, like, if this show didn't go so downhill in the last season and a half, I'd be like, oh, man. I mean, this show did what the Sopranos did. This show was, like a phenomenon. This show was like. Everyone watched the finale. Everyone was talking about it. If you didn't. And I didn't watch it from the start. I watched it in. I got. I jumped on in season two, [00:25:10] Speaker A: right? [00:25:10] Speaker B: I met my friend Nicole, was Nicole o'. Keefe. You know, she was telling. She told me about this show first. My brother told me about it, and eventually I started watching. I was like, wow, this is great. This is really good. And everything that made this show great, they abandoned, like, at the end. It was. It was so stupid. What a waste of. What a waste of potential. Anyway, [00:25:29] Speaker A: I agree. [00:25:30] Speaker B: This show, man. I mean, look, most of you have probably seen Game of Thrones. If you haven't, what the are you doing? Stop listening to us and go watch Game of Thrones. It's an engrossing, dense, beautifully shot, acted, written show. I mean, it's a. It's a quintessential just great drama that had. Had pretty much the whole country and probably most of the world watching it. It was, it was, it was unbelievably popular. I'm telling you, all this, like, it didn't just end seven years ago. Like, everyone knows this, but. But it was just so good and, and again, with so many characters and so many storylines, you know, you run the risk of it being too much, but yet they found a way to keep it all. They kept track of it all for most of the time. And it was just. It was just great. It was just a. Just a balls out. Whatever you're looking for. If you're looking for great writing, you got. If you're looking for, you know, hot people who are naked and showing full frontal nudity to you, they got it. If you want to see great sword play, they got it. You want to talk about honor and nobility and war, and it's just got everything. It's got villains you want to kill, it's got heroes you want to root for. It's got suspense. I mean, this show had everything. Not to mention the probably greatest opening song theme, like maybe of all time. Like, we just talked about Sopranos, right? Like, who doesn't hear the opening? You know, Apo does the whole. And then you hear. You hear that Sopranos theme, right? This is a whole nother level. This is like. [00:27:02] Speaker A: No doubt, no doubt. [00:27:03] Speaker B: This just this. Just the, the music sores and the awesome opening where they show you all the, all the places you're going to visit in that episode. Everything was going for this show. Everything. And I was hook, line, and sinker. And then like I said, they kind of tanked it at the end. That's why it's number four. What else can I say? Game of Thrones was a great show. I love it. Someday I'll rewatch it. Like, I really will. I've seen a lot of them over and over. I've watched episodes with friends who picked it up. My daughter and Emma went through the whole show and became one of her favorites. So I watched a ton of episodes with her. It's fun to revisit. But again, no [00:27:41] Speaker A: doubt, that [00:27:41] Speaker B: last goddamn season. What the. [00:27:45] Speaker A: Pissed. Pissed everyone off. Okay, you know, what are we doing? [00:27:47] Speaker B: I don't care. What [00:27:48] Speaker A: can we do? Me either. Horrible. I agree. And [00:27:51] Speaker B: I assume we'll be talking about this a little later. [00:27:54] Speaker A: We'll be talking about it later. So. [00:27:56] Speaker B: Yeah. So we could, we could move right on and go ahead. [00:28:00] Speaker A: I will be honest with you. I cannot believe that you're leaving out, but either both of these or at least one of these, you know. Now I am absolutely, I gotta tell you right now, shocked. I gotta tell you right now, for me, number three, I know this is a favorite of yours, but again, you've seen more than me, so I, you know, what can I say? You know, it's only three seasons, but I had to put Deadwood on the list. I had to put that. [00:28:23] Speaker B: Okay. [00:28:26] Speaker A: I, I, you know, I, I thought this show was phenomenal. [00:28:29] Speaker B: Okay, [00:28:29] Speaker A: now, now, now, the language is bizarre. It's a little, it's a Western in a way, you know, but, but, but they have like this, I don't know how to, how to talk about the dialogue. It's like a poetry of language. Right? Are you doing what I'm talking about here? [00:28:43] Speaker B: It's wonderfully written. Yeah. And it's, I mean, I've never heard the word sucker being said so eloquently in my entire life. [00:28:52] Speaker A: I, I, I agree. And you know, this is, this is something, I know this is like a bold statement, but everybody's gonna have their, everybody has their opinion on this and that. In my opinion, out of all the, any of the shows I've watched, I've never seen an actor in a role better than Ian McShane. I think the best acting I've ever seen on television is Ian McShane as this character. Because I thought he dominated. You know, [00:29:19] Speaker B: I do know, [00:29:19] Speaker A: loved him. I thought he was, I thought he was unbelievable. And, and again, the acting was, it was great all around. I love Gerald McCraney who came in the third season. He's always been a favorite of mine. And you know, I will say, I will say I know me and you argue about this. I, I have not seen a lot of Timothy Oliphant shows. I thought he was like a little on this show, but, you know, who the fuck am I, you know? Now he does have this other show I hear was for the phenomenal. One of my buddies is Die Hard with this, the, what's the name of the other show he plays? Justified. Sheriff for a long, [00:29:49] Speaker B: Just [00:29:49] Speaker A: Justified. Justified. [00:29:50] Speaker B: Fucking love Justified. [00:29:52] Speaker A: I heard it was great. I would love to check that out, you know? You know, but, but overall it was just, I loved the show. I thought it was awesome. I thought, I did think the third season was a little weaker compared to the first two, but overall I thought it was a Let me tell you, it was a joy to watch. I'm looking forward to watching rewatching that again. I rewatched episodes a lot when it was back in the. You know, I loved it. What could I say? Anything to add there? [00:30:18] Speaker B: Yeah, a ton. Because it's my number three, too. Why would you think this wasn't on my list? I know why. Because you're assuming that Breaking Bad is on my list. It is not. [00:30:26] Speaker A: I. That. That. That's what I'm saying. Well, I was gonna say if it wasn't Breaking Bad or Deadwood, I guess I'm shocked that one of them would be left off is what I'm trying to say. But, yeah, I [00:30:34] Speaker B: mean, we'll get to why when I get the honorable mentions, but yeah, dude, Deadwood, of course. Number three, man. So. And you took the words right out of my mouth. As far as Al Swearengen is the. The best character of TV ever. Ever. In my opinion. That. That's. That's one of the most. That's even more fascinating than Tony Soprano. Ian McShane as Al Swearingen is brilliant. Like, he's just. The way he's written, the way it's acted. His role, his central role on this show is. It's. It's. It's just phenomenal, this show. Is it? Yeah, it's a Western, but unlike. You've never seen a Western like this, you know, Never. [00:31:11] Speaker A: No, I agree. It's [00:31:12] Speaker B: part gritty realism, and you said sort of poetic idealism. Like, it's. It's. It's. It's a crazy combination of writing to the point where I don't think people knew what to make of it, which is why it only went three seasons, I think. [00:31:26] Speaker A: Three [00:31:26] Speaker B: seasons in a movie, by the way, a great [00:31:29] Speaker A: movie. That's true. [00:31:31] Speaker B: So, yeah, that's a little testament to our number three here. The show was so popular after the fact that they did get a pretty cool movie, a nice little return to. To Deadwood. What, 15, 20, almost 20 years later, right? [00:31:47] Speaker A: I was gonna say a decent amount of time. Not 20, [00:31:50] Speaker B: 12, 13, 14 years later. [00:31:53] Speaker A: And I didn't see. And it's not the same thing. Is that because what's. Poor Gandafini was gone. But I didn't see the. That Sopranos film they made afterwards. I know it's not the same thing, but did you ever see that? Yeah, yeah. [00:32:04] Speaker B: Something about Jersey or something. With. With Gamlafini's actual kid. [00:32:09] Speaker A: His son. Yes. Yeah. I mean, I didn't see that. [00:32:11] Speaker B: It was decent it didn't. It didn't blow me away. Same way El Camino didn't blow me away. The Breaking Bad movie that came out afterwards. [00:32:19] Speaker A: Yes. I didn't. Yeah, right. Exactly. Right. They [00:32:21] Speaker B: were fun to watch, you know, but. But it did not. It didn't floor me. This movie, I thought, was much better. And again, it wasn't fan service, really, but it was like, it kind of gave you everything you wanted. Right. Like, oh, every character's back. And, you know, it was a great, great way to bring all the characters back for when, you know, they finally, finally achieves what, statehood or whatever. Which is why, like, George Hearst came back to, you know, usher in, like, you know, becoming part of the state or some. [00:32:50] Speaker A: Right, right. [00:32:51] Speaker B: But it doesn't matter. Awesome show. It picked up, believe it or not, even though it's years later. It picked up right where the third season left off. [00:33:01] Speaker A: I was going to tell you, it almost seemed like another, like, the fourth season, in a way, because. You know what I'm saying? Because. Just because of that, like you said, right when it ended, you're basically right there. It was like, you know, which is amazing that they did that all those years later. [00:33:11] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, right to the point where, like, you know, because I think a lot of people were pissed that we didn't get the conclusion that we wanted. Now, it wasn't their fault, but we did not get the conclusion we wanted. Not with the George Hirsch storyline. Not with the. [00:33:25] Speaker A: Exactly. [00:33:25] Speaker B: You know, the whole Trixie thing, like, and they kind of picked that right up. It was really good. Really well done, this show. I've watched this show maybe five times straight through, like. Yeah, Yeah. I mean, it's just. I can't. It's one of those shows that's in my constant rotation, and it's just. It's just fun. If you haven't seen the show, like, it's. It's. I mean, it's. I'm not gonna say it's for everybody. It's not like I, I, angel was really into some westerns or some. So I was like, yeah, watch Debbie. She watched one episode. It wasn't her thing. Like, it's just. [00:33:55] Speaker A: Yeah, [00:33:55] Speaker B: it's just not her thing and that. Granted, you know, we all watch TV for different reasons. Right. Like, I told my. My stepdaughter, Emma, I said, at some point in your life, you're gonna want to watch dramas with more substance. Right. Not that what she's watching is better or worse. It's just. [00:34:13] Speaker A: Right. [00:34:14] Speaker B: They're not. She's not watching Breaking Bad or Deadwood or the Wire. Like, she's not. She's watching good shows. You know what I mean? But just like, not. You know what? It doesn't matter. I'm not gonna shit on other shows either way. So my point is, I told her, someday you're gonna say, phil, give me a show to watch. I'm gonna tell you, probably Deadwood. Is it the first one I tell you to watch, Believe it or not. Because I think that is something that everybody can kind of appreciate. [00:34:37] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:34:37] Speaker B: Like you said, the West Wing is not really a thing. I think it's up there with Sopranos. It's just a great drama. It doesn't matter, whatever. [00:34:45] Speaker A: And it's funny. Like, we're talking about Ian McShane. It's like. Like we talked about again, James Gandhi before. Is there Ian McShane without James? Go to Feeney. You know what I'm saying? Like, that character, like, he kind of like. So I feel like Gandaffini laid it up and Ian McShane just slammed it home in a way. You know what I'm saying? Great way to put it. It's just he. He took it. He took it to the next level of like, you know, a guy that you. You watch it. I'm like, I fucking think this guy is an asshole, but I love this guy. He's a maniac. You know what I mean? Like, what an evil bastard. [00:35:13] Speaker B: Yes. [00:35:13] Speaker A: You know, like, [00:35:14] Speaker B: unlike Tony Soprano, upon multiple rewatches, Ian McShane does stick to a code. He does have a code. You know what I mean? [00:35:22] Speaker A: A [00:35:23] Speaker B: moral code. However corrupt, he sticks to it. Tony didn't. Tony was. Was, was a slave to his own whims and urges and desires. He was a child. He really was. Ian McShane, Al, swearing, it is not a child. He knows exactly what his place is in the universe and he goes after it with ferocity. And I love it. It's amazing. [00:35:46] Speaker A: And, you know, I gotta tell you, that's another thing. You watch some of the shows like the Deadwood and you're like, I, I, I, I am a complainer. I gotta tell you, I. About things about like, could you imagine living back then? I mean, just going to the bathroom sounds like a nightmare. You know what I mean? What the hell. Think [00:36:02] Speaker B: about that all the time, folks. This is not a glamorous Western. Like, this isn't like one of your. This isn't Gunsmoke. You know what I mean? Like, this is, like. This is gritty, this is muddy. It's dirty. It's. It's metaphorically, literally, it's. I mean, you're, you're in the. With this show, like you really are. It does not shy away from anything. And look, don't Timothy Oliphant Ben, if he's not one of the most fun characters to watch on any show. I, I'm a die hard elephant guy. Like, put that guy in anything and I'm gonna watch. The dude's just a great leading man. He's attractive dude. I love that Seth Bullock is in the red non stop. Like he's, he's angry 24 hours a day. I love it. [00:36:45] Speaker A: Maybe that's what it is. Maybe it was to me, it was like a pouty. I'm like. I mean, he's [00:36:49] Speaker B: just, he's just, he's just. But, but I don't know. It just works. [00:36:52] Speaker A: But can you blame. At the end of the day, can you blame him at the end? He's the only one trying to come up with some law there, I guess. I don't know, folks, [00:36:57] Speaker B: honestly. And this is largely based on true events too. They got a lot of history accurate on this show. Seth Bullock was a real character, I'll swear in. Jim was a real character. But of course, you know, you also see Wyatt Earp and Wild Bill Hickok and Calamity Jane and you, you see all these characters on the show as well who pass through Deadwood. It's just awesome. What do you got? [00:37:17] Speaker A: You know what I forgot to mention? Well, first of all, the fact that guy John Hawks is another guy. I love that guy. [00:37:22] Speaker B: He's great. [00:37:22] Speaker A: He's a great. [00:37:23] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:37:24] Speaker A: And I know we had obviously Anna Gunn from, from Breaking Bad and everything. [00:37:27] Speaker B: Much [00:37:28] Speaker A: less [00:37:28] Speaker B: annoying on this show than she was on Breaking Back. [00:37:30] Speaker A: What about Brad Dorff? [00:37:32] Speaker B: Love Brad Dorff [00:37:34] Speaker A: now. The one guy I forgot. I've totally forgot he was on the show. It's hilarious. Is the trouble the guy who got in a little trouble later on who's great in the 80s? Oh, [00:37:42] Speaker B: Jeffrey Jones. [00:37:44] Speaker A: Jeffrey Jones. What's going on there? [00:37:46] Speaker B: God, what a weirdo. It sucks because he was good on the show. You know what I mean? He was great. You said he was great in the 80s. [00:37:52] Speaker A: He was. I know. I was heartbreaking. He got into some trouble. What was it? I [00:37:55] Speaker B: think he looked. He looked at kitty porn, I think. [00:37:58] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. Well, okay. I think, [00:38:00] Speaker B: I think. I don't, don't. You know, I don't know for sure. [00:38:03] Speaker A: There was something. Something shitty like [00:38:05] Speaker B: that. Yeah. You know I mean, whatever. It sucks. That's [00:38:08] Speaker A: wrong. [00:38:09] Speaker B: Whatever. What can you do? Yeah. He was not in the movie. Right. He was the only one, I think. He wasn't in the return movie. Right. [00:38:14] Speaker A: I thought. Yeah, I thought there was someone else, but I guess not. I [00:38:17] Speaker B: mean, Woo was in the return movie. You know what I mean? Like, what was in there? Like, I love blue. [00:38:21] Speaker A: That's true, dude. [00:38:23] Speaker B: You know, Wu played Buck Bukai, the fake guy who broke DiMaggio's record on Star Trek. These. Phase nine. [00:38:30] Speaker A: Oh, really? That [00:38:31] Speaker B: was Woo? Yeah, yeah, that was the actor. I can't remember his name, but. Swedge, sucker, I'm gonna love. Love Woo. I mean. I mean. I mean, everybody. Everybody on the show was good. Everybody. You mentioned Brad Dorrit. He was. I mean, Brad Dorf is such. He's so great. He's such a. It's. It's great when these actors find the perfect role for their type of acting. Right? Like his sort of. I'm quoting Entertainment Weekly. Brad Dorff's oddball intensity fits perfectly here. That was from an X Files episode that he was in. Great episode called beyond the Sea. He was in that. He was in Star Trek. He was in Star Trek Voyager for a couple episodes, or I want to say two episodes. He just pops up, obviously. You know, One Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest. He's been acting for years. [00:39:18] Speaker A: But no, he was the doc. He [00:39:19] Speaker B: was. He was great on there. Yeah. I mean, every. Everyone on there, right up to. [00:39:24] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:39:24] Speaker B: You're gonna see Leon Rippy at the end of Next Gen Season 1. You know, Tom Noddle, the guy runs the other bar, who's friendly with Al. [00:39:33] Speaker A: Yes, yes, yes. [00:39:34] Speaker B: He's in. He's in the final episode, Next Gen, season one. So. Yeah, [00:39:36] Speaker A: and I was waiting for a Star Trek. You know, all these TV shows were talking about. There had to be some mention. I [00:39:43] Speaker B: can't help it. Half these guys were on Star Trek. Oh, let's not forget. This is brother Daryl, my other brother Dale. Let's not forget E.B. farnham, of course. William Sanderson. [00:39:57] Speaker A: Yes. What was he from [00:39:59] Speaker B: New Heart, primarily. [00:40:02] Speaker A: Okay. He [00:40:03] Speaker B: was one of the. The rubes in Newhart. [00:40:05] Speaker A: I never watched any of the Bobby. Bob Newhart shows. I heard they were good. [00:40:09] Speaker B: I only watched Newhart. I was. I was too young for the Bob Newhart show with Suzanne Plette, but I watched Newhart, where he ran the. The Bed and Breakfast in New Hampshire with Tom Poston and my brother Daryl. My other brother Daryl. You know that. The show. Yeah. I Mean, we could talk about Deadwood for an hour, like, so. I mean, it's. It's just. [00:40:29] Speaker A: We had. So we had two the same and the same number. How about that? [00:40:32] Speaker B: That is something. Now we. We ain't gonna have the same number two and one. So we're stopping at two there. Well, [00:40:35] Speaker A: we're not. Well, I. Well, yeah, we kind of know what our two on ones are. We just gotta have. You know what? [00:40:40] Speaker B: I know what. Yeah, I think I do. I just don't know what order they're in. So. So [00:40:44] Speaker A: same for you. [00:40:45] Speaker B: Stop the suspense. Give me your number two. [00:40:47] Speaker A: Well, my. My two is going to be. It's going to be Breaking Bad, you know, that's [00:40:51] Speaker B: what I thought. Okay. [00:40:52] Speaker A: You know, and the thing for me with this is that, you know, watching this was one of those things where now, again, you know, it was like. Like some of these other shows we've talked about, they have some great surprises on the show where you're like, holy shit, I can't believe this happened. Or I can't believe they did this. You know, and again, we're talking about these actors like Gandolfini and. And Ian McShane and, you know, you got to give this guy credit, too. What are we doing here? Phenomenal. And now. Now I'm blanking on his name. Walter White. What's his name? [00:41:23] Speaker B: God. How come. I am [00:41:25] Speaker A: Brian. Brian Cranston. Brian Cranston, of [00:41:28] Speaker B: course. [00:41:29] Speaker A: I mean, what are we doing here? The acting that this guy does is, especially knowing him from being such a comic actor and some of the other things. [00:41:35] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. Malcolm in the Middle and Seinfeld. I never would have seen that coming. [00:41:40] Speaker A: But I will say this for my. In my own opinion, my own take on it, is that I think that of all the shows that I've seen, this show did the best job at telling a complete story, getting to the end and giving to me what was an ending that was at least a satisfying ending compared to any other shows I've seen. I will say, to me, it was the most complete. [00:42:05] Speaker B: Good point [00:42:05] Speaker A: to me. And I do think that, you know, they. I'm trying to think we should have probably named. Mentioned. Mentioned moments of these and other shows. But to me, though, and I forget his friend's name now, or what's the bald dude's name on the show? That's [00:42:20] Speaker B: the Mike. The older guy. [00:42:22] Speaker A: Not Mike. Not Mike. Not Mike. The older guy. This guy's all over the place. What an. Not that guy. Yes. So not that Mike. Who's the the is he. It's his sister's husband. Oh. [00:42:38] Speaker B: It's his brother in law. [00:42:40] Speaker A: His brother. Yeah, [00:42:41] Speaker B: yeah. [00:42:41] Speaker A: When he's on the, with the moment when he's on the toilet and he realizes who, who Bryan Cranston is, that's got to be top five or maybe even top three or maybe even number one. Most unbelievable moments in television. I thought that was phenomenal. When you're like, holy. He realizes what the deal. Because they danced around [00:43:03] Speaker B: it so many times. Right. [00:43:05] Speaker A: So many, so many [00:43:06] Speaker B: times. You're like, is he gonna find out that Walter is, you know. Right. Heisenberg, you [00:43:10] Speaker A: know, which they did a good job of like, you know, you know, hiding that for as long as. And again, you know what? Are there weak episodes? Yes. Does it go on? Is it annoying at times? It's frustrating. It's, it's angsty. It's, you know, it's a pain in the ass. Yes. But I just think, overall, I thought for the thrill ride they gave you, I thought that they, they, to me, they did the best job again out of all the shows where it's like. Because you're like, you know, like I said, Game of Thrones, the last season sucked. Sopranos got weird at the end and I was like, ah, you know, what are we doing here? This did the job. It got all the way through, did the full story. And I was like, I was like, I like this. I like the way that this ended, you know, and, and, and the two of them together were great. The young guy, we got to mention him. Jesse, amazing. Aaron Paul Ball. [00:43:53] Speaker B: Any, any Co created BoJack Horseman, so gotta love him. [00:43:58] Speaker A: Oh, did he really realize that? Wow. And, and then Giancarlo Esposito is one of the greatest villains on tv. What are we doing here? He's great, you know, and Jonathan [00:44:07] Speaker B: Banks, we glossed over Mike before. I love Jonathan Banks. I've loved him since. I know I knew I saw him in Airplane, but I don't think I knew when I watched Beverly Hills Cup. That's where I remember him from. But I don't think I put it together that he was the guy in Airplane, but he's always going to be Beverly Hills Cop, the guy who kills Mikey Tandino in the beginning. So ever since then, he was in a, he was in a cool 80s movie with Sharon Stone called Cold Steel from like, like USA Friday night, you know. 11. Let [00:44:37] Speaker A: me tell you something. Let me, let me tell you something. Now you didn't even have to say once you said Cold Steel the next words out of mouth sounds like a USA late night movie right there. [00:44:45] Speaker B: Sharon Stone's getting railed or something. You know, it was so borderline soft core porn. [00:44:50] Speaker A: And I did the exact opposite of you. Just because I saw a Beverly Hills Cop later on, I didn't grow up with it. I saw it later on when I saw him. I was like, oh, that's this Mike from Breaking Bad. It was like hilarious. It was like. Yeah, exactly. It was also [00:45:00] Speaker B: in season five of Community, by the way. He was. It was hilarious on there. [00:45:03] Speaker A: Oh, really? [00:45:04] Speaker B: Yeah. Right after Breaking Bad ended, he jumped on a Community right in between Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul. [00:45:12] Speaker A: Yeah. So, you know, again, I know you'll. You can talk about it in honorable mentions and everything, but that's, that's about what I got. I loved the show. I enjoyed it. And again, I did watch Better Call Saul the first season. How can we not mention him? Bob Owenkirk, another great character. What are we doing? [00:45:24] Speaker B: Fucking genius. [00:45:26] Speaker A: I did not. I didn't. I didn't follow through with that show. So I do want to go back that. Because I hear it's great. And again, it's [00:45:31] Speaker B: worth [00:45:32] Speaker A: it, you know, I love this show, so definitely [00:45:33] Speaker B: worth [00:45:34] Speaker A: it. And that's what I got. You know, Hit me with number two. Yeah, [00:45:39] Speaker B: done. We'll talk a little bit more. Breaking Bad leader. It is my number six. Like, it really is. That. That's my first honorable mention. [00:45:44] Speaker A: All right. [00:45:45] Speaker B: It was between that and Sopranos to squeak into the five. If Sopranos hadn't blazed the trail for Walter White, it would have been, you know, Breaking Bad would have been number five. [00:45:54] Speaker A: Right, right. [00:45:55] Speaker B: Anyway, and. And my wife is. I mean, Angels, that's her favorite show of all time. So she's probably hating me that I put it. All right, number six. But anyway, so my number two. I'll end the suspense for you. My number two is the West Wing. So, [00:46:10] Speaker A: you [00:46:10] Speaker B: know, my number one is. So we'll talk about the West Wing. Listen, I hated the idea of the show back in, back in the early nine, late 90s when it first came on, premiered in 98. I'm watching all these other shows that I think should be winning the best drama of the year. And every year it's West Wing, West Wing, West Wing. And I'm like you. I hated that this show was. Was winning all these awards. Not just that, my father, rest in peace. God, I love him. He refused to watch it because he thought it was like a left wing show. Now, obviously it's a Democratic administration, you know, blah, blah, blah. So like, he kind of, he was so far right, he kind of refused to watch it sometimes. But I, it was just, it was too talked about and lauded for me to not give it a try. And dude, once I started watching it, man, there was no turning back. This show is so much fun. I've probably seen it every episode straight through, probably nine or ten times now. I watch it non stop. It's. It's in the rotation more than any other drama that I've ever watched. Any other hour long drama, again, not including Star Trek, Buffy, Angel, Battlestar, but like just straight up dramas. I've watched this, this show backwards and forwards. I love Aaron Sorkin. I do. His writing can be too schmaltzy. It can be too idealistic at times. He does not know how to write women. I mean, in general, I'm talking in general. I love the guy. Don't. I think he's a genius. But he. There are flaws in Aaron Sorkin's writing. So everybody don't get mad. But like, man, this show, man, he, he did it right. Like, like he, he hit the bullseye. He has Sports center that comes out. It's a weird hit. ABC kind of doesn't know what to do with it. [00:47:54] Speaker A: Sports Night, I think, I'm [00:47:56] Speaker B: sorry, Sports Night. The Sports center, yeah, Sports center, yeah. You know, sports. I love Sports Night. You know, the first season, it's. Is it a sitcom? Is it a dramedy? Nobody knows. The point is. So he's writing the first season of the West Wing while he's writing the second season of Sports Night. And you know, whatever he did, right, with Sports Night, he took and perfected it on the West Wing and the show just didn't stop, man. Like this show more than any other show, I mean, we need this show now more than any, more than we've ever needed it before. Like, we need a show where you have people in power who want to do good, are qualified for the roles that they're in and their, you know, their idealism is in the right place. It may be misguided, it may seem corny nowadays, but it never stops being infectious. It never does. There are moments in this show that I could go back to and I could just feel it like I did the first time. You've never seen the show or you've seen it? [00:49:03] Speaker A: Never seen an episode, you know, oh my God. My buddy, My buddy Mike Murphy was die hard with this show. To it again. It was one of his comfort things and all that kind of thing like in the background. I'm like, you know, again, it's, it's, it's funny. It's like right there with going to the doctor is politics for me. Like that whole, the whole thing. It's like even like Veep. I watched a couple episodes of Veep and I'm like, I got to get out of this. It's. It's just not my, it's not a world I want to be in. I don't know how to describe it. I. It's like I want to run away when I, whenever I see these kind of things on there. It's just my own. Like to me, why would I put this. If I'm going to. I'll put the Three Stooges on in the background or Bugs Bunny. And why would it, why, why am I going to. Now again, I. Having not seen. I'm talking about as a comfort thing, obviously. Yeah, I would, I would need to focus. Focus on it from watching it. But I. Not the on it. It's just, it's just not my bag. But I know it's great because I know, you know, people I know love it and everything and it was. I had a lot long run and everything. But. And not to say I would never give it a chance. I just feel like there's so many other things I want to get to before I get to this. I don't know how to describe it. I've never seen the Wire. What are we doing here? But, but go ahead. You know, [00:50:01] Speaker B: I mean, look, I mean, what else can I say? You know, the acting is incredible, the actors are great. You know, Martin Sheen is, is amazing. He was so good as the president that at first he wasn't even supposed to be a main character. He was just going to pop in and out here and there was supposed to be about the actual staff. But he had such an impact in the, in the last. He's pretty much only in the last five minutes of the first episode and it was such an impact that they were like, all right, how do we not write for this guy non stop. So what can I say, man? Multiple Emmys. And it just, it, it, it all of them deserved in my opinion. It had one weak season, in my opinion. You know, season six was very uneven. They came back pretty strong with season seven. But I mean if that season six was. If. See Sorkin left after season four and there's a noticeable drop off there really is [00:50:52] Speaker A: interesting. [00:50:53] Speaker B: The fact that it still maintained the high quality that it did is a testament to, to the, to all the other creators behind the show, John Wells and, you know, all these other creators who, you know, who brought it to life in the first four seasons. Yes, there's a drop off after season four, but season five still has some great episodes. And overall, it's a good season. Season six, not so much overall, but season seven. Season seven is, Is. Is. It's an amazing experiment. It's. It's a. It's a cross section of a national election from start to finish. Like, it's pretty incredible to watch. They take, you know, a candidate who's asked to run all the way to the election results. It's. It's pretty. It's pretty fascinating. That's cool. Jimmy Smith and Alan Alda were the two candidates in season seven. I mean, that's some. Yeah, so they got some star power there. Listen, I. Again, I could talk about all these shows for hours and hours. The West Wing, it's just so much fun. It was. It's so well done. Love everything about it. If you haven't seen it. Bomber, look, I, I would never push you to watch something that I know you're not going to like. But anyone else who hasn't seen the show, politics aside, because again, it's not really partisan, despite what my father, God bless him, says, despite what it's not. They write for both sides. They always give you every angle of the topic, and it's on the biggest stage imaginable. There's never been a TV show that's done this as well as it did on the stage that it's on. Right. World politics. Like, there's just. There's no other, bigger stage to kind of set this drama in. And by the way, dude, how can an episode about the Federal Election Commission or restructuring Social Security be gripping and amazing? It just is. Like, I don't know what to tell you. You know what I mean? Like, and this is a show that, like, all real politicians were watching. Faithful. Every week. They were like, oh, my God, this is. I mean, some of them are like, yeah, that would never happen. That would never happen. But, you know, when you have presidents and senators watching this show faithfully, they must be getting something right, good or bad, right? That's, That's. That's all I got. That's all I got for you. West Wing. I love it. I'm gonna watch it the rest of my life and enjoy it. And it's just so, so good. [00:53:03] Speaker A: And, hey, you know, it might just take one episode, and all of a sudden, here I am. I got the West Wing boxers on. Next day I [00:53:08] Speaker B: have the episode I'd give you if you ever wanted to do it. [00:53:11] Speaker A: No. Wow. I [00:53:12] Speaker B: know, exactly. I mean, there's. There's probably three or four, but any one of them, I think, would hook you like that. [00:53:20] Speaker A: Well, you know, now it was. Was Alison Janney on that show? She [00:53:23] Speaker B: was. She was great. [00:53:25] Speaker A: And the other actor I knew was Brad. Was Bradley something or what was [00:53:28] Speaker B: Bradley Whitford was on there. He was great. Yeah. Martin Sheen, John Spencer, Dulay Hill. [00:53:34] Speaker A: I knew [00:53:36] Speaker B: my favorite character. I can't think of his. Goddamn. Toby is my favorite character on the show. Why can't I think of his name in real life? It doesn't matter. But he's. He's phenomenal on the show. [00:53:47] Speaker A: Nice. [00:53:47] Speaker B: Yeah. And the guest stars are obviously off the charts. Like, they. They got, you know, some of the best guest stars to come in and do, you know, three, four episodes at a time. I mean, Matthew Perry won an Emmy on this show. You know, they just kind of come. They swoop in. Yeah. I mean, not that he can't act, but you don't picture Matthew Perry as being somebody who's going to win an Emmy on West Wing. But he was great. He was in, like, five or six episodes. Really. That's just. Just. It's so fun. So much fun. But, hey, enough about. Enough about the West Wing, man. Let's do it. Let's bring it home for the folks. Your number one. We know what it is. You know what my number one is, so let's just go ahead and talk about it. [00:54:19] Speaker A: All right now, before we do it, do you want to do honorable mentions, or should we skim over that? No, 100. We definitely [00:54:24] Speaker B: got to talk about it. Do you want to do yours first? [00:54:26] Speaker A: I'll let you go first, because I got to think about a few. I have two written down, but I want to think about a little bit more. Go ahead, get it going. [00:54:33] Speaker B: I'm gonna go through a few of these real quick. Okay. No, I mentioned Breaking Bad already. Yeah. That was probably my number six. I mean, the show's so good. Nothing against that. I just think these other shows are better. Here's some more on my list, Mr. Robot. This was a show that did things that I'd never seen a show do before. It, you know, it incorporated the viewer in a way in which I've never seen a drama do in a creepy and really cool way, really psychological way. You were pretty much a part of the show, which is weird when you consider it's a drama like that, but it's not like a Black Mirror Bandersnatch type of way. It's just a great way that the main character incorporated you, the viewer. It's really. It's really cool. I'll segue that into. I also kind of consider Black Mirror, but not really. But since I just mentioned it, I'll throw it out there. Black Mirror is a great show, too. I don't think I would have considered an anthology series anyway, but whatever. Lost. Lost was incredible. It was one of the most gripping shows in the moment to watch. My brother and I didn't miss a episode. We were frustrated after the end of every episode and a little frustrated at the end of this show. But all in all, what a journey, man, what a great show that was. 24, I gotta mention. 24. [00:55:49] Speaker A: Oh, what a great [00:55:50] Speaker B: concept. Jack Bauer is one of the most badass characters of all time in any TV show. Kiefer Sutherland, thank you. Show kept me pretty gripped. You know, I gotta say, I. The only. I never watched that one. The one season when it came back, I only watched the first eight, but I never watched that ninth season because I think I watched the first half and it was the same. Yeah, it went. It went from, I want to say, 2000 to 2008. And then they came back in 2013 or something. Fourteen, whether with the new season, like a half season. But it wasn't that good. [00:56:19] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:56:20] Speaker B: Broadchurch, which is a fucking awesome show. It's a British show about a murder in a small town, a small coastal town in England where they're just trying to figure out who did it. And, you know, this show did something that most shows don't do, including the West Wing. It shied away from hard conversation scenes, which is weird. Stay with me for a second. So, like, you're watching a show and you know the moment that someone finds out someone dies or something, Like, a lot of times they just gloss over that with music and a reaction in the background. And this show, no music, nothing. You're just focused on this mother who's got to hear that her son's dead. And the camera doesn't move. It just stays there in their grief, in their confusion. It's a really good show. It's worth watching, even just for those choices alone. A couple more. [00:57:19] Speaker A: Wow. [00:57:20] Speaker B: Six Feet Under. Great show. One of the really great early HBO shows. You know, this one came out a couple years after the Sopranos, and [00:57:32] Speaker A: yeah, [00:57:33] Speaker B: really, really amazing. Great drama, great characters, and maybe the best final episode of Any show ever. I'd put it up there with Star Trek, the Next Generation. As far as the best final episode, Two more. I didn't know what to do with this show. I didn't even know if I should consider it for this list. Louie, I'm a big fan of Louis. It's pretty much a comedy. Like, you know, it's. [00:57:58] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. [00:57:59] Speaker B: You will have to find a way to talk about it at some point in the future, because it's. It's fucking brilliant. But I didn't know what to do with it, so I didn't. It's a half hour. It's got comedy. It's so. I didn't include it. You know what? God. Oh, why can't I think of the name? Oh, the Leftovers. The Leftovers is the last one. Really underrated show. It only went three seasons. No one watched it. But, holy, this was brilliant. Really well done. And we are sucking HBO's dick in this pot, I gotta tell you. Like. Like 10 of these shows that I mentioned are HBO. But, hey, what can I say? They make a. They make good. They make good dramas. [00:58:39] Speaker A: They do. [00:58:40] Speaker B: You know, there are other. A million other great shows I thought about including Atlanta in my honorable mentions. I thought about including, you know, shows like. I mean, you know, it doesn't matter. Like. Like, there's so many great shows out there. I've seen more that I like. I like Alias, but of course, it fell apart after the second season and that kind of stuff. But so many good dramas. It was so hard to take all those shows and get my number five, to be honest. [00:59:03] Speaker A: Wow. Impressive. You did a hell of a job. [00:59:05] Speaker B: There's a lot [00:59:06] Speaker A: I gotta tell you. That was another show I forgot about. That's another world I got, you know, Six Feet Under. Boy, I mean, you're hanging out in a morgue. Is that what you're doing? Right. [00:59:14] Speaker B: Pretty depressing. And I'll tell you what, Bomber, I watched this show when I was going through my crisis of mortality. We've talked about that, [00:59:22] Speaker A: girl. [00:59:22] Speaker B: Yeah, it did. It didn't. I guess it's a testament to how good the show was that I kept watching it. But when I was in my late 20s, I was very anxious about my own mortality and death and blah, blah, blah. And this show just shoved it right in your face every fucking week. So, [00:59:39] Speaker A: yeah, it was [00:59:39] Speaker B: uncomfortable. It's hard to watch, but at the same time, I'm glad I did. It was brilliant. [00:59:45] Speaker A: Well, I'm probably going to stay 60ft away from that show and we're going to move on. Understood. [00:59:49] Speaker B: What we got mentions. [00:59:51] Speaker A: You know, I don't really have a lot. I have to put Lost there too, just because, you know, I was so, you know, now. I didn't watch it when it first came on, but I did watch it and catch up to it by the time the last two seasons, you know, we're on television. [01:00:07] Speaker B: Right. [01:00:08] Speaker A: But, you know, it was one of those things, like, I love the characters, the idea was great. And I'm like, oh, we have all these. They kept introducing these other questions, and I'm like, oh, this. I can't wait to see what the result of this is going to be. And then I don't know if it was like, about midway through the third season, there came a point where you started to realize that they don't really know where the they're going. And I started to realize that I'm not gonna get 50% of the answers. I want to. What the fuck is actually happening. Yeah. You know, and I kind of got pissed off by that, but. And again, I stuck through it to the end. But I do think that the. At least the first two seasons, maybe two and a half, was so solid and the characters good that I had to say, give it an honorable mention there. And what are we doing? You know? So [01:00:46] Speaker B: good. Yeah. [01:00:48] Speaker A: And, you know, I couldn't think of other ones that are. Are that I. That were. There's other shows I've seen all of that I didn't really like or I didn't, you know, but. But I will say this. The shows on now that I, you know, now this is ridiculous because I know it's not a great show, but it's just so much fun because I fucking love Stallone. I'm loving watching Tulsa King. Oh, [01:01:08] Speaker B: I know you like that show. Yeah. [01:01:10] Speaker A: I mean, it's so corny and it's, you know, it's. It's just ridiculous. But he. I just. The guy is just the best. I mean, I. Fuck. You know, it is. Growing up in the 80s, too, is one of those things. And again, I like Schwarzenegger too, but we, We. There was always this thing about the two of them, and we were always just the Loan household when I was growing up. So it was like, you know, we were Rocky and Rambo above anything. Schwarzenegger. [01:01:29] Speaker B: Schwarzenegger. We talked about that. It's so funny. [01:01:31] Speaker A: Yes, we did. We did. And. But other shows I do like, now there's that show paradise, which is pretty good so far. I'm interested to see where that goes. Have you been watching that show? [01:01:41] Speaker B: No, no. There is a bunch of dramas I'm watching right now that I didn't include because obviously I'm still in the middle of them. But yeah, no, [01:01:47] Speaker A: I also, I also don't know if that would be like sci fi too. It's kind of out there. But I'm curious to see what you think about it when you, when you, when you see it. But, and I also do like, you know, some spin offs that we're, we're gonna get to talk about. Number one, I, I've liked House of the Dragon. I've liked the, the Knights of the Seven Kingdoms. Those shows are good. So, you know, what can we say, you know? [01:02:05] Speaker B: No, it's pretty impressive. Yeah. One more thing. Before we get to our number ones, there is a show that neither of us has mentioned, but I think should be included in this conversation of the greatest dramas of all time. I've only seen the first two seasons, so I did not include it. But we haven't mentioned more once. Mad Men, which I know is really good. I, I, you know, I said I like the first two seasons a lot. I just never finished it. I think it left Netflix or something when I was watching it. I just kind of never returned to it yet. But that is one of those shows that I, I really appreciate what they're doing and I do want to watch it. I'm not saying it would make my five if I finished it. I'm just saying that's one of the ones that we should at least mention. [01:02:41] Speaker A: That's a great call. It's funny because I've never seen any of that show myself, but I know Allison's seen it and she liked it, but I, I, that's one I definitely want. It's on the list too. I, I, I've always hear thing it's and Jon Hamm, you know, that kind of brought him onto the map. Oh, yeah. You know, I'm very curious to check. And Christina Hendricks, but we don't need to go down that road. I would like to check it out eventually. Yes, [01:03:02] Speaker B: totally. All right, you ready to dive in here? [01:03:06] Speaker A: Well, there'll probably be some Mad Men and Mad Women listening to our number ones here. I don't know, maybe not yours, but I am gonna put Game of Thrones 1. I have to do it. Yeah, I have to do it, you know. You know, for me. I agree with you. At the end of the day, yes, the show, the ending was, what could we do? There's no, there's no getting around that. It was. It was horrible. But I do think that the rest of the show was so good enough that I have to put it at number one. Because like you said, and you said it the best way before, which I always say to people too, whenever I talk about the show, the show has everything. There's nothing the show doesn't have. It has. You know, you, you could sit there and go, well, this show is not this. The show's not that. This show. Ha. It's funny. There's action, there's drama, there's twists, there's, you know, hot people, there's. It's just insane. You know, what are we doing? You know, where do you want to go here? You know, And I do think that the episodes that are phenomenal are just so good that I can't believe that there would be a show that would be above it, you know, And I also can't think that the. At least for me, the two I'll never forget, like you said about the Sopranos, watching it, you know, there's moments where you watch on TV where it's like the next day the, the. The. The Red Wedding and, And when the Mandalorian gets. Gets killed. Those two moments alone were like, what? Wow. You know, it was like. Moments were like, holy shocking. Yeah. And the battles, the battle of the battle. The bastards. The. The fucking. You know, there was, There was so many. [01:04:44] Speaker B: Oh, the fucking. The Hard Home. That's my favorite episode from that [01:04:47] Speaker A: Hard Home. Another one. And the one we watched so many times too, over and over again was the one season two, the battle at the end of season. [01:04:55] Speaker B: Battle Blackwater. Yeah. Holy shit. [01:04:58] Speaker A: You know, it's. And the characters are. I mean, Tyrion Lannisters there. Is there a better character on television than that guy, you know Peter Dink. Right. That's [01:05:09] Speaker B: great. [01:05:11] Speaker A: And his dad was awesome. Charles Dance. That guy was. [01:05:14] Speaker B: Oh yeah. Ty win. [01:05:16] Speaker A: But there's so, there's just so many. It's like, you know, and, and the women characters are great on the show. And. And again, it did get derailed at the end, but I, I just think that it's something I just enjoyed watching. That's why the spin offs. I'm watching that, you know. And again, I've never really been a big Die Hard fantasy. Like again, I was never a Lord of the Rings person. I was never into, uh, Dungeons and Dragons, any of that. But uh, for some reason this thing. And again, I was like you. I watched the first episode and I was like this thing I'M not watching this. I can't understand the names. I don't know what's going on. There's too many people this. And again, my buddy Mike Murphy was the one that, you know, the West Wing fan. He's like, you got. You gotta please. You got to give it another try. Yield. And I did. And I. And I'm glad I did. And I even. I even, you know, I even tell people that I've never seen it. I'm like, you know, you. You. I know they've heard the last. The season blow. So why would you watch it? I just think it's still worth watching because it is just. [01:06:10] Speaker B: And it may be different for them, too. Like, I. I gave my daughter the warning about Lost, you know what I mean? And she loved the ending. Like, it just wasn't. It didn't, you know, maybe because. [01:06:19] Speaker A: Interesting. [01:06:19] Speaker B: We sat there for six years questioning everything over the course of six years. She watched it in a summer and it ended, and she was like, I thought it was beautiful. Like, what are you talking about? And I was just like, well, I'm glad you enjoyed it. But. [01:06:31] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, [01:06:32] Speaker B: maybe years from now, people appreciate Game of Thrones, but it's such a departure. The pace was such a departure. Just the pace alone. Such a departure from the first five and a half seasons to the last season and a half just didn't make any sense or whatever. It was eight seasons or seven seasons. [01:06:48] Speaker A: I think they went eight. [01:06:49] Speaker B: Okay. So, yeah, so the first six and a half and then the last one and a half. Just. [01:06:53] Speaker A: Yeah, [01:06:54] Speaker B: just. I don't get it. But. But I mean, it's my number four, so, I mean, of course, I totally get. I mean, the show is phenomenal. Like, it was just so fun to be a part of in the moment. It really was. [01:07:04] Speaker A: No doubt. And, you know. Yeah, so it's like one of those things, too, where it's like, I am looking forward to rewatching the whole thing again, you know, and again, I think that there are times when you watch a show and you're like. When you're just, like, blown away. And also, I was looking forward to it. It was a show that I looked forward to watching every week more than I did any of the other shows. You know, I don't know. I don't know what to say now. Again, there's a million characters, so there's a million storylines, and maybe this point. And again, not all of them were great. You know, sometimes I'm like, oh, I don't want to hang out with. Who's the guy that gets his cut off there? I wasn't really big into his whole. Oh, [01:07:40] Speaker B: not reek. Theon. Theon. Theon. [01:07:46] Speaker A: Yeah. I. I could have did a little less Theon, but. But, you know, hey, listen, what are we doing now, you know, is [01:07:51] Speaker B: think about how many careers that show launched. Like, almost everybody on that show used it as a springboard to something else. Like, almost everybody. [01:07:59] Speaker A: Yeah. Crazy. Yeah, you're right. You're right. [01:08:02] Speaker B: That's how. That's how amazing that show was. Yeah. How popular it was. [01:08:07] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean. Yeah. You know, I don't know. I don't know what to say, you know? And it's funny. Even the last season was rough. We talked about. But I know there could be conversations. We can go on about what they could have did, what they should have did. But I will say there was something satisfying when. When they did kill the. The White Walkers there at the end. That was awesome. I thought, you know, I wanted to see them die. I just wish that they would have. In my opinion, I would have put that as the last. That should have been the final battle and not the you. Right. You know what I'm talking about. [01:08:37] Speaker B: Joke. I mean, I. I can't agree with you there. The White Walker thing was so in the ass. Like, please. [01:08:43] Speaker A: I guess. I guess I just liked Arya so much. I love the idea, even though it should have been John Snow. But I just loved. I love. I loved her characters. That was awesome. I love Noria, too. [01:08:53] Speaker B: I loved her whole, you know, wherever she went for that whole season when she was, like, training and like, I. I like that whole bravos, bravos. I love that. That was fine. But, like, you've been building this up for eight years, and now you're gonna do it all in one episode, and we can't even see it. Are you kidding me? Like, [01:09:11] Speaker A: yeah, I. [01:09:13] Speaker B: Yourself. [01:09:14] Speaker A: I don't know why they did that. I was, [01:09:16] Speaker B: like, furious. Like, give me a break. I'm gonna bump this shit down to five after this conversation. Them. Honestly, what the fuck are you thinking? [01:09:28] Speaker A: And, you know, the other thing that pissed me off about it is just that, like you said, the Hard Home episode was so fucking good that I can't believe, especially that moment. How chilling was that? When the dude raises his hands and [01:09:42] Speaker B: John. The look on Snow's face. Oh, [01:09:45] Speaker A: how do you have that episode point and then not have that? Be more than just, like you said, one episode and not be the whole. That should have been one whole season. You know, I don't know, whatever that. How do you, how do you have that? And then it up like that to me again. I don't know what the whole happened back behind the scenes there. The, the, apparently the two guys got a Star wars deal which I don't think ever came to fruition. They wanted to get the out of there. Or like, why. I know, [01:10:09] Speaker B: I know the books weren't written yet. I know that, like the conclusion wasn't written, so they had to make some up. And I think they did it in conjunction with what's his face. But still, Jesus Christ. Like, it was rushed. It felt rushed. What, What a. I hated it. And I hate it more because, like I said, it ruined what could have been a perfect show. Like, it really could have been. [01:10:26] Speaker A: Oh, I, I, that, that's why, like I said, for me, I still put it in number one. I understand you putting it for. I understand people being like, no, that show, you know, but I, I'm, in my opinion, like you said, if they had landed it, I would basically get into an argument over anybody else telling me that there's a better show. [01:10:45] Speaker B: I think it would have been my number [01:10:46] Speaker A: one. In my opinion, there would never be an argument of it. You couldn't tell me there's another show number one? I don't [01:10:52] Speaker B: think so. I'm with you. I was, I was saying that in season like six, I was like, wow, if this, this is like. Because I was anticipating the seven seasons so much, I was like, wow, I really can't wait for this. Holy. Like, but more so than even, you know, I'm used to, you know, it was off. [01:11:11] Speaker A: You know what? It's, you know, I gotta be honest with you. It's kind of like, you know, watching a guy or a girl in the Olympics doing the gymnastics. And you're like, all this person's got to do is stick the landing here, you know, and they land on their balls in a way where you're like, this guy, this guy's not never going to go to the bathroom again. You know what I'm saying? Like, it's, it was like epically like he fell down on a goddamn wood chipper or something. I don't know what. You know what I'm talking about? Oh, [01:11:38] Speaker B: my God, of course I do. Unbelievable. [01:11:41] Speaker A: You know what I'm talking about? [01:11:43] Speaker B: Yeah. The wood chipper and the balls and the gymnastics. Yeah, I'm with you 100%. [01:11:47] Speaker A: Yeah. Great. That sounds great. Yeah. So let's, let's get to the wire. Let's get, let's get there. What do you got? [01:11:55] Speaker B: I am so done with trying to sell people on this show. Like, I'm done with it. I don't know if, you know, I've. I've stopped recommending it. I'm at the point now, if you don't want to experience this awesomeness, just go die. I. I no longer care. Like, if you're too stupid to not at least try, because there are people who've tried. It's not their thing. Fine. But, like, this is one of those shows where it lives up to the hype. Like, everyone for, you know, 20 years has been saying, this is one of the greatest shows of all time. And people still kind of don't watch it. And it's just. It's just bonkers to me. It's just there's. There's so much going on here that. And much like Game of Thrones, you mentioned, like, the first episode, you just. You're just kind of thrown in. They do not expect you to. You don't know everything going on. You don't know the characters, but it's like. It's like you pick up in the middle of a season, but you don't. Obviously, it's. But it just. That's. That's part of the genius of the show. I mean, this. This. Not my words. This show is a cross section of an American city from every aspect that you could think of in the time it came out. Right. 2002 to 2008, this show comes out. It takes place in the city of Baltimore. It's like 98 of it's filmed in Baltimore. And, you know, there are so many different things about this show that set it apart from other shows. A couple examples. Each season is a different facet of the city. So each season, even though it has the same characters and same sort of threads going through all the seasons, the first season focuses on mainly just the drug trade and the police and, you know, and. And. And, you know, the narcotics and the homicide division trying to. Trying to crack down on what's going on with drugs in the city. The second episode, the second season, sort of takes perspective from the docs and, you know, the shipments coming in, drugs plus a lot of things and, you know, sex trafficking and all this kind of stuff. It's. Again, you're introduced to new characters, but you're still following the other characters. Season three focuses a little bit more on the government of the city, the election, and how that, you know, bleeds into the corruption. Season four is a school system. Season five is like the media and it's like. And it all comes together in this beautiful, real, you know, gut wrenching, gritty sort of show. And, you know, no show in the history of time has ever portrayed the good and the bad being so ambiguous. Like, there's no good guys, there is no bad guys. [01:14:41] Speaker A: Yeah, [01:14:42] Speaker B: everyone's corrupt. Everyone has their own, you know, idealism. Everyone is trying to do what's right by their own code. Everyone is doing everything wrong. It's, it's, it's pretty, it's pretty insane how they pull it off. It really is. And just, just sir, Other things about the creation of the show. Like, like there's very little music. There's no, like, soundtrack. It's just like, most of the music is just intrinsic to the scene. If someone's playing music in the scene, you hear music, otherwise you don't hear music. The only exception is, like, I want to say the end of each season, they have like, like a song that plays. But it's crazy. It's crazy how you. You can't imagine that you would get involved in a show like this and you would be as engrossed as you are because it seems more like an experiment. It seems so real. It's like you're watching a documentary, but you're watching a scripted drama. It's, it's, it's, it's hard to describe and I get why it's hard for people to watch it, but once you do, once you get to the end of the first season, which in my opinion is maybe the tightest season of television in history, it's. Which [01:15:51] Speaker A: season is the first [01:15:52] Speaker B: season? One [01:15:53] Speaker A: season. Oh, season one. No, [01:15:54] Speaker B: I'm saying once you get to the end of the first season. [01:15:57] Speaker A: Right. [01:15:58] Speaker B: It's, it's pretty epic. The first season Sopranos is unbelievably tight, but I think this beats it. I think it really does. I think this, I think it's. For my money, it might be the best season of television ever. And that includes Buffy, Angel, Star Trek, Sopranos, Battlestar, like, all those shows, like, it's, it's just, it's brilliant. And I really, really wish more people would watch it because a show like that's going to go in a time capsule and 100 years from now they're going to be looking at that show to really see what it was like to live in an American city in the early 2000s. They really are. [01:16:35] Speaker A: You know, I was going to say just about watching shows in general, like you said, I know you've been on This. I have friends have been on this about me, you know, getting around to this. But I was like, I don't know how you feel about this, but, like, watching shows now, I know again, you've watched more than anyone, and I probably know, but I, I, like, I could think of Lost, Game of Thrones, Breaking Bad. I'm trying. What else I could think of where the show was still going on, and I was like, oh, this is going on. This is happening. Let me get. So I would. I. I could catch the first season or first two seasons and catch up to it in real time and then finish the show with. With it while it's going on. You know what I'm saying? [01:17:15] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:17:17] Speaker A: This show, I didn't do that with, obviously. So the time is gone now. So now to watch the show is committing to five seasons. How many. Six seasons? How many seasons were there? So that's the thing is now it's like. I don't want to say it's like homework, but it's. It. There's a difference to me of watching a show where, you know, it's all there for you now. You just got to sit there and watch the show where it's like, if it's still on now, you have to wait for the next episode to come out. It's a little different. I don't know if that makes any sense to you. You know what I'm saying? [01:17:41] Speaker B: Kind of. I mean, I hear what you're saying. Like, not only that, like, you know, despite the time capsule comment I made before, like, it is a product of its time as well. Like, it is a very specific set of years in time. Right. I mean, the first episode, they're using payphones still, you know, for example, you know what I mean? In 2002. So, I mean. But again, like, it doesn't detract from the drama or the ingenuity or. [01:18:04] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:18:05] Speaker B: Or anything about it. Matter of fact, it's an interesting history lesson as far as, like, just a small slice of the drug trade, say, and how they overcame, you know, using payphones and then beepers and then cell phones and then burners, you know, I mean, so, like, like, it's. It's. It's an interesting time because you also have, like, you know, the infancy of the Internet as well. In 2002. [01:18:25] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. To [01:18:27] Speaker B: 2008, when it was pretty much like a lot of growing happened there like that. It's an interesting sort of five or six years there when the show began and ended, because a lot of stuff happened and the show does not sort of shy away from that. Like, it, you know, tackles it. And by the way, I mentioned Michael K. Williams before. One of the best characters of all time. Not as good as Al swearing and not as good at Tony Soprano, but pretty close. Top five would be Omar, man. Omar Little. Michael K. Williams character from [01:18:56] Speaker A: wow. [01:18:58] Speaker B: I mean, it's an iconic character, brilliantly written, amazingly acted. Just a bad motherfucker. Like, it was just. Just a. Just a cool fucking character to. To get on board with. [01:19:09] Speaker A: It's interesting, too, that it went up right against right before the iPhone started out. Right. I mean, so it's almost right there. [01:19:14] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, the iPhone came out, what, 2006. It didn't become popular till 2008 or so [01:19:19] Speaker A: I was gonna say. I thought it came out in 2008 or nine. Okay. So it was a little early. I [01:19:22] Speaker B: think it was like people started buying it exclusively, like it was for mass sale, maybe. I feel like it came out 2006, but I could be. It could be wrong. [01:19:31] Speaker A: No, you could be right, like you said. But not everyone was getting it at that point. Like you said, whatever. Yeah. [01:19:35] Speaker B: The first person I saw with an iPhone was like, 2009, I think was the first time I saw it. And I was like, holy shit, it's magic. Like, it was crazy when I first saw [01:19:41] Speaker A: what. Yeah, of course, [01:19:43] Speaker B: I didn't get my first phone. I got the HTC Evo in 2010, was the first smartphone I had. [01:19:49] Speaker A: Yeah, I think I was [01:19:50] Speaker B: loved. It was Android. I love that. Now those are folks I'm shitting on people. But, like, honestly, it's so worth it, man. Check it out. You wouldn't think this would be one of those shows like, oh, my God, I can't get. Wait. I can't wait to get home from work to watch another episode. But that's what it was like. Even though it's like, you know, you do have to use your brain. But then again, like, it rewards you upon re watches too. Like, so you kind of. If you don't catch. I didn't catch everything the first couple times I saw it. You know what I mean? I didn't have every character down pat, but after watching it six, seven times straight through, it's just brilliant and like it builds upon itself in a phenomenal way. A way in which the only of the great shows do, you know, Sopranos, Breaking Bad, like, it's just. It's just so well done. [01:20:34] Speaker A: I'm. I'm definitely gonna check it out. It's just you know, I just haven't gotten into it yet. But we will get there. You know, we'll have that conversation. Hope you, like, be on the list next time is [01:20:42] Speaker B: what it is. I'm [01:20:43] Speaker A: sure. I'm sure I will. I'm sure the concept sounds amazing and, you know. Yeah, I mean, I definitely think it would be a fun watch. Like I said, the idea that they bounce around at different things each season is an awesome idea in and of itself. You know, and [01:20:54] Speaker B: there are people who hate that. There are people who are like, oh, my God, the second season is the worst, or the fifth season is the worst. And I'm just like, I think they're all great. Like, I really do. Like, I don't think there's any dip in quality, like, at all. And it's really well done. And. But I. I'll give you this. As far as, like, you mentioned Breaking Bad, Sopranos, or what show just mentioned were, like, the great episodes he mentioned. [01:21:20] Speaker A: I mean, well, was it Breaking Bad? You talk, you know, I'll try [01:21:25] Speaker B: Blackwater and, like, [01:21:26] Speaker A: all [01:21:26] Speaker B: these Hard Home. And this isn't a show where you have that, like, you don't. Like, I'll say that. Like, there's no, like, oh, my God, did you see the buys? Like, [01:21:37] Speaker A: what. [01:21:37] Speaker B: What episode was that? Like, it's not that type of show. Like, it's, it's. It's greater than the sum of its parts. I know most good shows are like that, but it's the only show on this list that I can't be like that. I don't know the titles as well as I do because it doesn't matter. I could tell you Bomber. Oh, you want to get in the West Wing? You should watch the Stackhouse filibuster. You should watch Let Bartlett Be Bartlett. You should watch. You know, I mean, like, I could tell you the episodes to watch. Same with Game of Thrones, Breaking Bad, you know, all the show, all the other shows on my list. This show, it's not like that. It's different. [01:22:09] Speaker A: Wow. [01:22:10] Speaker B: I don't think I even thought about that in terms of, you know, citing certain episodes until this moment. But that's. It's kind of a good thing, in my opinion. Like, you know, it kind of means, like, the show is not about that hour. It's about the whole story. It's about that cross section that I was talking about. It's. It's. It's pretty bonkers. [01:22:33] Speaker A: I, you know, and I forgot that I think I mentioned this to you before that right when the show was on. I. When I was last year a college, I interned at an agency in the city and one of their clients was Idris Elba. And he asked me to run. They. He asked me to run outside and deliver some headshots to him. I guess he wanted a stack of headshots or whatever. So I went downstairs and he had opened up his trunk of his van. I was handing him his stuff now again. But the funny thing was meeting him with him on the street there, I had not been watching. I didn't watch the Wire. I didn't know who. I had no idea who the guy was. You know, it was like, you know, I. But then. And then later on I was like, oh, my God. And again, I've seen him in other things, obviously, but I still have not seen him in this, which is funny. Oh, he's [01:23:17] Speaker B: fucking Stringer Bell dude. What a great character. He's great. [01:23:21] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:23:21] Speaker B: And we met. I. I mentioned Frankie Faison, that I loved him in the Wire when I met him at your studio or whatever. [01:23:28] Speaker A: Yeah, he. His daughter was in my acting class in college and he came to see a couple of shows we had done. After the, after that, ironically enough, me and my buddy Joey, who's doing well with acting right now. [01:23:43] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:23:45] Speaker A: We were in a play called Omnivores that Frankie Faison came to see. [01:23:49] Speaker B: I remember that. [01:23:50] Speaker A: And, and written by my friend Ben Clauson, who's a very, very good playwright, whose hero is Aaron Sorkin. And people were telling Ben, even when I was in college that, you know, you're not. You don't really write women very well. So I think it's hilarious. That's interesting because. But he's brilliant. He's very, very. And. But it's funny. I forgot Frankie Faison plays a mayor in that show or something. No, he's the, [01:24:16] Speaker B: he's the deputy of operations for the police. And then he's the. He's the chief. He's deputy ops. Then he's the chief of operations for the police. He's. And then the police commissioner, actually. [01:24:28] Speaker A: And they did a. There's a theater we used to work at in Montclair that we've. Now we've done some stuff as well. It's moved to West Orange. It's called Luna Stage enough. Him and Frankie and his wife were big. I don't know if they own the theater or they. I don't think they're associated with it now, but at one point they. He did a black, all black cast version of Death of a Salesman. Which I didn't get a chance to see, but it was always like sold out. It was always like a big thing. I was like, I pissed that we didn't get a chance to check that out, but, but yeah, I, again, it's one of those things. Again, a lot of the, a lot of the actors on this I've, I've known or heard of, like you said, kind of come from this. Wasn't Michael B. Jordan part of the show too? [01:25:03] Speaker B: Yeah, when he was real young. This is where he got to start, pretty much. [01:25:07] Speaker A: So again, it's one of these things. It's on the list. I, who knows when it'll be, but I'll, I'll get there. But I, I know, I, I, I don't think anybody would argue for you putting this as number one. There's no question about that. [01:25:18] Speaker B: I mean, hey, I mean, teachers own, like, all kidding aside, like, yeah, you know, I mean, everyone's got their own taste and, but this show just floored me when I first saw it. I'm so happy I saw it. I'm so happy. He was on everybody's list, list of top five. That's what made me watch it at first. I didn't watch it when it aired. I watched it after it was totally done. And I was like, wow, everyone keeps talking about this show. I guess I gotta watch it, you know, I mean, I bought it on dvd and it's Rest is history, man. Brilliant. [01:25:42] Speaker A: And, and it's still one of the ones like you, you know, you have conversation. It's, it's when you talk, I mean, I feel like if you talk about what's the best show, you know, to people now, you know, right now, I'm saying of all time, right now, if you talk to people about it, you're, you're going to get your Sopranos, your breaking badge, your Game of Thrones, you're going to get all that, you know. But I think this show is always mentioned if, if some, like, I, I've never seen it, but I'm saying, if you've seen this show, you're mentioning it. You know what I'm saying? Totally. It's, it's, it's in the pantheon of all the, it belongs right there with all of them. There's no question about that. [01:26:14] Speaker B: Agreed. You [01:26:15] Speaker A: know what I mean? [01:26:15] Speaker B: Totally. That's it, man. There you have it. [01:26:20] Speaker A: That's it. What [01:26:21] Speaker B: do you think? [01:26:21] Speaker A: Are we going, Are we doing number zero next? We're done. We, we hit it all, didn't we? What are we doing here? [01:26:27] Speaker B: That was fun. I mean, we knew this would be a passionate one. We knew it'd be a fun one. You know, you and I could talk about this for hours and hours. Thankfully, we kept it. Oh, my God. It's like an hour and a half past that. I love it. [01:26:38] Speaker A: Yeah, we always seem to get involved. What do we do? [01:26:42] Speaker B: Hey, but that's it, man. We'll. We'll pick a good topic for our next one. We'll. We'll come back. [01:26:47] Speaker A: I. You know, it's funny, I think I mentioned this last time. I feel like we were on a run of, like, knowing what it was like to tease them out right at the end. But now the last few have been like, ah, I don't have no clue, you know? Well, [01:26:58] Speaker B: we also want to make sure. I think it's because we want to make sure that we have a good conversation for one. You know what I mean? Like, we don't want to, like, pick. We were both worried about the baseball hitters, but I think that worked out better than I thought. It was [01:27:08] Speaker A: 100. [01:27:09] Speaker B: Yeah, I thought that'd be a boring pod, but we. I had fun talking about it. Hopefully people, you know, like listening to it. But, yeah, I mean, look, I. I think we're pretty safe when we talk about movies, tv. Those are the safe ones. It's when we start doing music, certain sports conversations where we may venture into areas that you and I aren't quite as passionate about, maybe. [01:27:33] Speaker A: Yeah. So, [01:27:33] Speaker B: you know, you know, if we're gonna do, you know, top five, you know, movies, we're gonna be. We're gonna be into it. It's gonna be an engaging conversation. Directors, you know, we got such a positive feedback about that one. But, [01:27:43] Speaker A: yeah, who [01:27:44] Speaker B: knows, man? [01:27:45] Speaker A: Eminem colors. What are we doing? [01:27:49] Speaker B: I think, yeah, I think it's great. I don't think we know where we're going next, and I think that'll be fun to kind of come up with it. [01:27:55] Speaker A: Yeah, no, you're right. You're right about that. Yeah, you're right. [01:27:58] Speaker B: All right. Yeah. Well, listen, thank you so much for listening, man. We really appreciate it. You stuck with us for past an hour and a half talking about our traumas. Hopefully there's a show on here that we. We talked about, and you're like, oh, all right, maybe I'll check it out. Who knows? Bomber, you know, what do you got, man? [01:28:13] Speaker A: You know. You know what you're saying? This is so dumb, but, you know, I was thinking, like you said, like, it's nice if we don't mention anything here, you know, we'll go in blind and we'll see what the next topic's gonna be. You know what? Would you. Would we. Could we put one out there without. Without a like title on it? You know what I'm saying? [01:28:30] Speaker B: What do you mean? Like, [01:28:30] Speaker A: Men of A Certain Five. Men of A Certain Five episode, episode 13. Go. You know, I'm like, so. So people go in, no clue what we're talking about. Like, who the hell is going to click on that? I know you. I don't know who [01:28:42] Speaker B: would. And if they did, who would stick anywhere past, you know? All right, top five Speedy Gonzalez episodes. Let's do it. You know, who's gonna stay? [01:28:50] Speaker A: Yeah. Oh, that's what they're talking about. You. Yeah, you're right. Yeah. That's it. Otherwise, we're gonna be here another hour. Bullshit. So, you know, thanks for listening, Phil. Anything else to say? [01:29:01] Speaker B: No. I love you guys. You're the best. Thank you so much for listening. We appreciate it, and we will see you soon with another podcast. Be good.